"Just out of curiosity, what would you folks like to have seen more of in this ep?" jpen
I would have liked to have seen more of a connection or an understanding between David and Maddie at the end. Not neccesarily a kiss, but just a quiet moment with just the two of them. A recap about babies and moms and families or some reflection of their past Christmases.
Post by callmeditzy on Dec 9, 2008 22:50:40 GMT -5
I remember seeing this episode when it first aired and thinking the ending was so cool! I had never seen the "behind the scenes" stuff that we're so accustomed to now with the advent of DVD commentary and stuff like that. I just thought it was so magical how they went seemlessly from the characters of "David" and "Maddie" in the "office" to Bruce and Cybill on the set. It made me happy to see such warmth between them and, knowing how strained their relationship was at times (as they've both admitted), it's nice now to be reminded that there was affection between them. Of course, they are actors, but their interactions seemed very genuine.
What I notice most, looking back, is the Totally 80s look of the entire cast and crew! Oh my God, I think I knew at least one person for every hairdo on that screen. And the mustaches! The mustache flashbacks! And I swear I recognized half of those sweaters (shaker knit!!) from my own personal experience.
And I agree with beesnbears. There didn't seem to be much of a "wrap up" scene between David and Maddie in this one. What started out as their usual one quickly turned into the First Noel of Fourth Wall Breakage.
Also, naturally I would have liked to have seen David and/or Maddie holding the baby in each other's presence. I am such a chick.
I've got a question: How did you like the Fourth Wall Breaking at the end of the episode? If you're an original recipe fan, do you remember your reaction to it from way back when? Do you feel any differently about it now?
It made me feel like part of the ML family!!! ;D ;D ;D
I think they were the writers, the producers, the staff.......and their whole families!!!!
BTW, i noticed on this episode's thread that some folks were wondering who Andrew was in real life.... They're twins! I don't know whose children they are, but I spotted them in the final scene, and I screencapted (if that's a word ) 'em!!
Post by callmeditzy on Dec 9, 2008 23:01:42 GMT -5
Seriously! I've decided their names are Waldo and Waldo II.
More importantly, can you hook us up with some screencaps of Bruce and Cybill? I love it when he's jus smiling so big and her hand is on his neck.
Lastly, who's the guy standing behind Allyce with one hand on her shoulder and one hand on the shoulder of the lady in red next to her? He looks so familiar, but I don't remember seeing him in this episode.
Post by italianbluemooner on Dec 9, 2008 23:04:05 GMT -5
1. How badly do you wish David could have seen Maddie with Agnes and the baby under the tree?
I'm daydreaming of David and Maddie holding Andrew in their arms, under Maddie's plugged in tree, with the lights in the living room switched off, whispering and flirting and smiling at each other and leaning in for a.................................... !!!! I've got a one-track mind tonight!!! ;D ;D ;D
Last Edit: Dec 10, 2008 0:59:20 GMT -5 by italianbluemooner
I need to tackle the question of Maddie and happiness...I think you guys are being a little tough on her.
Maddie has been through a huge upheaval in her life in the almost a year leading up to this Christmas. She has lost almost everything material she has owned.....and I think she has lost a lot of faith. What has happened to our girl would certainly be enough to drag anyone down. But, she has pulled herself up and buckled down to try and regain her life as she knew it.
I guess what I am saying is that Maddie's happiness in the past had a decided materialistic aspect to it -- let's face it, she had lots of cash , the ability to travel, and I am sure she was having a great time. Not deep.....but sure fun!
So she equates fun and success with money and is working hard to regain her former status.....that is why I think she takes herself and the business so seriously....she has set her goals high, and knows only one way to get to them...buckle down and get back what she had. It didn't work with Ron Sawyer, so she knows she needs to get it back herself.
NOw....fun......David is fun, but his fun is not the martini, mansion, BMW kind of fun......and his distraction gets in the way of Maddie achieving her goal quickly...which is why I think she gets so angry at him.
But little by little, David is integrating himself into her life, and teaching her lessons about life, and happiness. He is very sweet, telling her she would be a good mother, and I think she is quite flattered by his comments. But she has to play the game and dismiss him, when secretly she is thrilled with his revelation. This is just one of the changes......almost one every episode, that David leads Maddie through as he helps her let the person she is inside, out.
Wait till a year from this episode....and this is a hint....one of the questions for next week will be "How has Maddie changed from one Christmas episode to the next?".
A couple things about the ending......which I just love.
IBM is right, the lady with Jay Daniels is his wife.....although I am not sure she was his wife at that point. She has appeared in several episodes....those I remember off the top of my head is the dance scene that starts out "A Womb with a View", and she is also one of the jurors in "In 'N Outlaws".
if you are looking at the children, you must have noticed the sweet brown haired child in the burgundy velveteen dress...that is Clementine Ford, Cybill's daughter.
And this will mean nothing to anybody but me, but one of the friends of my youth, who worked on the production staff, is the pretty blonde in the bright yellow sweater.
"I don't have a disease...I have a difference of opinion." ~ Maddie Hayes
I think the definition of happiness for David at least, was well established in his mind before this episode. I believe that it has its basis in his childhood. I see Dave's childhood as similar to mine with buddies to hang out with, a traditional family, playing ball, riding bikes....the simple pleasures of lower middle class American upbringing. We weren't poor, but now looking back at it, we didn't really have much in the way of possessions. We MADE happy, by doing things, by enjoying others company...we didn't PURCHASE happy.
I get the feeling that Maddie's upbringing, while obviously comfortable due to her father's income, was less, well, warm. During the entire run of the series we see little of Maddie's friends, either from childhood or from her career, and two we DO get to meet (Sam and Annie) don't appear to be the most likeable sorts.
So, I suppose David equates childhood with happiness, and Maddie doesn't get the link, at least not in the beginning.
Agnes......is she just not the best thing in the world in this episode?
Maybe off topic, but my favorite quote about Agnes is the one when David says that the night before DePesto was born, he thinks God had a great party! She is one amazing individual.....a one and only......non-conformist...two sandwiches shy of a picnic.....and don't we just love her!!
From her singing of "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" (ba doop a doo), to the way she connects with the baby, we see a childlike innocence and faith....a person unspoiled by negativity. Her sweet and simple reactions reach out to Maddie's soft center, especially when she agrees to "share" the baby.
This is just a genuinely sweet episode, not heavy on the substance which I think was the plan......and also why the episode ran so short that they raised the red flag and had all the ML cast and crew bring their families to do the song that completes the episode.....a real necessity to break the 4th wall that day!!!
"I don't have a disease...I have a difference of opinion." ~ Maddie Hayes
He is very sweet, telling her she would be a good mother, and I think she is quite flattered by his comments. But she has to play the game and dismiss him, when secretly she is thrilled with his revelation. This is just one of the changes......almost one every episode, that David leads Maddie through as he helps her let the person she is inside, out.
Yes! Her reaction is great to watch: first she sort of rolls her eyes, and then what he's said sinks in...and she says, quietly and sincerely, "Thank you." It's a nice moment of connection between them.
And, BTW, anyone believe David when he says, "I'm not talking about that kind of help!"? Of course you are, David...even if you don't realize it yet!
"I don't want you losing any more sleep over me." "Believe me, if and when I ever find myself 'over' you, the last thing I'll be thinking about is sleeping."