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Post by beesnbears on Nov 18, 2008 20:38:49 GMT -5
Ok, everybody climb aboard this out of control train…or you might want to just follow the tracks of Maddie’s tears since it crashes into all of us wobblies!…..let’s try to uncover what the heck is really going on here!!! Feel free to discuss any or all of the questions below and add anything else you desire. Please type neatly and use complete sentences! 1. In case there are some who may not know, Pat Boone was known as a singer, actor and writer, a big star in the 1950s. He had a lot of top of the chart hits and was in a lot of movies back then. Kind of the all-American good looking guy, very charming, clean cut, the kind of guy dad’s would want for their daughters. He became most known for his old-fashioned values, his gospel music and his Christian books, and as a preacher and motivational speaker. Why would Maddie dream that she was married and had a family with a man like him? Extra Credit: Make a list of the many ways is he completely different from David? (this part should be fun!)You really have to pay attention to see some of them!! Do you know what discombobulated means? 2. In the second dream…where her “husband” drinks the Pepto-Bismol---yuck…Maddie has one of many revelations in this episode when she says, “You’re not the same man I married and I’m not sure I like the change.” What does this mean? 3. For anyone that is not fully aware, the movie “Body Heat” was about a lawyer who hooks up with a woman (her name is Matty!) and they have a very heated affair along with a little murder thrown in. The lawyer character is the furthest of extremes from what Maddie is looking for in a husband and from her “dream sequence husband” Pat Boone, but the scene that is mimicked in this episode definitely expresses the physical passion she has for David. This was a huge movie back in the early 80’s starring William Hurt and Kathleen Turner. (Another very pretty blonde!) Besides mimicking the movie, what do you think about the significance of David busting through glass doors coming after Maddie and then disappearing in her dream? (Man, was that hot or what?!) 4. What do you think is the real reason Maddie marries Walter? (Besides the writers coming up with this stuff and missing the mark… and that they were “undeniably, certifiably, categorically, got the documents up on the wall and everything, nuts.”…Just my opinion…Sorry GGC, love ‘ya man!!) Does David really call him Mr. Pawn by mistake? ARE WE HAVING FINE YET? 5. What are some qualities of Maddie’s character that are revealed in her dreams and in her conversations with Walter? What are some of her other revelations? While in previous episodes we observed growth in David’s character, how many emotions did David experience from the time Maddie walks in the office to the time he leaves at the end? You had to know I would mention the title!! 6. "Tracks of My Tears" is the name of a 1965 hit by Smokey Robinson & The Miracles. It has also been sung by many other artists since then, including Linda Ronstadt, who we heard singing “Someone to Watch Over Me” in one of those Sam episodes! So, whose tear tracks are we following anyway? Maddie’s, David’s…our own? Whose smile is the most out of place? Did this episode tug at your heartstrings or did you feel bamboozled and sucker punched? People say I'm the life of the party Because I tell a joke or two Although I might be laughing loud and hearty Deep inside I'm blue So take a good look at my face You'll see my smile looks out of place If you look closer, it's easy to trace The tracks of my tears.. I need you, need you Since you left me if you see me with another girl Seeming like I'm having fun Although she may be cute She's just a substitute Because you're the permanent one.. So take a good look at my face You'll see my smile looks out of place If you look closer, it's easy to trace The tracks of my tears.. I need you, need you Outside I'm masquerading Inside my hope is fading Just a clown oh yeah Since you put me down My smile is my make up I wear since my break up with you.. So take a good look at my face You'll see my smile looks out of place If you look closer, it's easy to trace The tracks of my tearsYou have until the bell rings at the end of class......I will get out of your way now!!
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Post by callmeditzy on Nov 18, 2008 20:55:46 GMT -5
Great questions, beesnbears! I may have to tackle them one at a time...
1. I think the point of Maddie's dream is that she's afraid of what the future holds if she and David get together and have this baby together. She's already heard from Agnes that he's running around with baby books and practicing lamaze, which she considers out of character for him, so she starts speculating about just how domesticated he would get. So in her dream, she imagines him as lame and milquetoast as possible. She's imagining the worst case scenario: that David would stop being David and abandon all the qualities that she hates to admit she loves about him. A part of her thinks she should want him to make those changes, but she also knows that wouldn't be true to who David is. And she would feel guilty (like in My Fair David) if she was the one responsible for him ceasing to be himself.
Pat Boone was a perfect choice, I think, because not only did he have a reputation for being clean-cut and moral, but he also was a very good sport about other folks in the business teasing him about it. He's definitely "in on the joke". Even though a part of me wishes Bruce Willis had just played the role himself, I do think the casting of Pat Boone was quite inspired.
And that right there may be the only compliment you'll hear out of me tonight as far as the writers are concerned.
How is the Pat Boone version of David different from the real David? Well, he says "heck raiser", he wears real pajamas to bed, he drinks white milk (which was always a part of Pat Boone's persona), and he turns down sex with Maddie.
2. I think this is related to why she imagines Pat Boone as David. But in addition to feeling guilty about the possibility of David changing, she's also kind of acknowledging she likes David the way he is, flaws and all.
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Post by jpen on Nov 18, 2008 21:05:07 GMT -5
Wow, bees, awesome q's! We're gonna be here all night! I think I'll tackle these one at a time: 1. I think Maddie dreams she's married to Pat Boone because he's the anti-Addison (as your "extra credit" question implies). She's afraid that if David marries her, and raises (what she thinks is) Sam's son as his own, he'll lose his essential Davidness--the qualities that drive her crazy, for better or for worse; all of his edges will be worn away if he "settles down". At the same time, the security that Mr. B represents is attractive to her; in fact, is the reason she (thought she) left in the first place--she wanted something neither hot nor cold, something stable, something (I would imagine) like what her parents have. On to the extra credit: Mr. B is pleasant, predictable, wouldn't know sarcasm if it bit him in the butt, regular in his habits (all of them--yuck , a good provider. He drinks regular milk from a glass, not chocolate from the carton. He lives by "shoulds" & "shouldn'ts": we shouldn't raise a baby in a house with a crazy staircase, we should have a swingset in the backyard. He is deliberate, not spontaneous; his idea of a "wild and crazy night" probably involves multiple bingo cards. Most obviously and importantly, everything has to be in its place--even (maybe especially) sex. There will be no clothes-ripping, no slapping, no yelling, no sex in the car or the kitchen or the office...NO PASSION. In a nutshell? Mr. B. is the spectre of everything Maddie always thought she wanted; the "life" in her dream is the way she always thought things should be...until David Addison came along.
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Post by callmeditzy on Nov 18, 2008 21:06:41 GMT -5
3. This is something I was just thinking about while I rewatched tonight! I think the very fact that Maddie dreams about Bad Boy David showing up is an acknowledgement that she is wildly and helplessly attracted to that side of him. Of course, in the dream, he's much more stereotypically "bad" than he is in actuality. He's the polar opposite extreme from the "jar of mayonnaise" sleeping upstairs (in his own twin bed!). Real David is somewhere in the middle. But I digress...
I think she dreams about him smashing through the window and taking her in his arms in spite of her protests because a part of her wishes he would do just that. She's tired of going back and forth in her mind about whether or not she wants a future with David and I think on some level she wishes someone else would just make the decision for her (which is ironic considering how angry she was when she thought Sam and David were taking that control away from her). I've always kind of thought that Maddie isn't afraid of being with David as much as she is afraid of making a decision that might not end well. What I mean is that she doesn't want to have to take responsibility if things don't work out between David and her.
And, yes, it was hot. Like lava.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 18, 2008 21:13:22 GMT -5
Great googly moogly!! GREAT QUESTIONS, BEESNBEARS!! OK let's start with question 1... I don't think that's the kind of husband she REALLY wants... Given that Maddie knows David very well, I believe she's just outguessing him... I mean, David loves Maddie so much... He'd do anything for her... And she's aware of that. Maddie is sure he would obliterate his wild behavior in order to give her what she wants... And a woman who's about to become a mother needs someone she can rely on... Extra credit: Yes, I know what "discombobulated" means...It means "really confused"... Who wouldn't be?! Differences: David "Pat Boone" Addison (OK you can censor what I'm about to say...) is... a bloody unlucky!! I mean... what happened to his testosterone? - He's a businessman; - He's a pillar of the community ( but I think "pillow" is more appropriate... ); - He drinks milk ( not chocolate milk ); - What about his jokes?? They're SO predictable! They don't make us laugh...at all; - What about the cases?? Definitely not his usual cup of tea! They're child stuff!! - Separate beds? With Maddie??? - He goes to sleep at 8:30 pm... Not even my grandma goes to bed that early!! ;D ; - He dismisses Maddie with: "Can't we wait until Sunday? The kids are going to Disneyland..." ... WHAT? ?? IS HE NUTS???
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Post by jpen on Nov 18, 2008 21:15:16 GMT -5
3. Well, first of all, I loved that he used a tricycle to bust through the French doors--a symbol of this domesticated life that dream-Maddie is trapped in. And she is feeling trapped--you can see it in her face, in the way she keeps going to the door and moving back from it--and you can hear it in all those damned wind chimes.
This scene is a replay of their relationship, with the roles reversed: she opens the door, he asks her "Do you want him or me?", she says, "You'd better go" and locks the door, but backs up and begs him with her eyes (or maybe dares him) to come after her. The tricycle through the door serves the same purpose as the slaps in IACM--it breaks some of the tension, and makes a statement about how much she has gotten to him, and paves the way for their passionate embrace...and then he disappears, in the same way Maddie is afraid their passion will disappear if they settle down together.
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Post by callmeditzy on Nov 18, 2008 21:15:36 GMT -5
4. Why does Maddie marry Walter? Good question. Actually, I think Walter's a pretty likable guy. And Dennis Dugan plays him so naturally and with such earnestness, it's hard not to like him. Maybe Maddie sees Walter as a kind of middle-man between the Pat Boone stereotype she's afraid she'd turn David into, and the quintessential bad boy she often imagines him (unfairly) to be. I mean, Walter's no David, but he is friendly and intelligent and kind and thoughtful, but is still personable and has a good sense of humore. It's like she's convinced herself that she's going to get one of two extremes with David, neither of which she'd want to spend a lifetime with. So she goes with Door Number Three. Plus, she she's marrying Walter as a way to avoid The Decision that's been weighing on her mind for four and a half months. She's obviously at her wits end, wrestling with it, with no end in sight. So she jumps at the opportunity to not have to make it at all.
And, no, I don't believe David calls him Mr. Pawn by accident. He's very clever, that one! Actually, that line has always comforted me, because I take it as acknowledgement from the writers that Maddie is using Walter to avoid David (which I'm not happy about, but it's better than being written as though she truly fell in love with him).
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Post by jpen on Nov 18, 2008 21:23:12 GMT -5
3. I think she dreams about him smashing through the window and taking her in his arms in spite of her protests because a part of her wishes he would do just that. She's tired of going back and forth in her mind about whether or not she wants a future with David and I think on some level she wishes someone else would just make the decision for her (which is ironic considering how angry she was when she thought Sam and David were taking that control away from her). I've always kind of thought that Maddie isn't afraid of being with David as much as she is afraid of making a decision that might not end well. What I mean is that she doesn't want to have to take responsibility if things don't work out between David and her. YES, I totally agree. Perfectly put, 'ditzy. Her fear is paralyzing her...and she has done this before. "Should I keep the agency open or close it?" "Should I reveal myself to this man or not?" We've watched her do this dance many times...it is ironic too, that she has always thought of David, the man who has been running around for two months taking Lamaze classes and buying baby books, as the commitment-phobe.
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Post by jpen on Nov 18, 2008 21:31:04 GMT -5
4. It's like she's convinced herself that she's going to get one of two extremes with David, neither of which she'd want to spend a lifetime with. So she goes with Door Number Three. Plus, she she's marrying Walter as a way to avoid The Decision that's been weighing on her mind for four and a half months. She's obviously at her wits end, wrestling with it, with no end in sight. So she jumps at the opportunity to not have to make it at all. OK, I promise not to piggyback on all your answers 'ditzy, but you've hit it on the head again. I also think that marrying Walter is her response to that final dream, of being out of control and taking the agency down with her. She's afraid that if she and David get together and then flame out that the agency, and the Wobblies, will be at risk (she says in "Trip to the Moon" that she'll sell the agency, that they need to get out of each other's lives). If she marries Walter, she sidesteps that issue. On a side note, I wondered if the train wreck scene was a not-so-subtle dig at Cybill by GGC--as though she had killed the show with her pregnancy. Listening to her commentary on MHGM, it seems that Cybill certainly took it that way.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 18, 2008 21:34:36 GMT -5
Question 2
There are two opposite forces fighting inside Maddie: the first one dwells in her brain... It tells her she needs David to change... Because a husband should be a reliable person, a serious and mild guy... Someone who can look after a child and teach him/her how to face life and responsabilities...
But the other force is the one that makes Maddie's heart beat... It's PASSION. It's DESIRE. It's INSTINCT. That's where those HOT HOT dream sequences with the real David come from!! ;D ;D
Well, this thunderous fight is "won" by the first force, the voice of WISDOM... But that's not what Maddie really wants. Not for her, I'm sure! Maybe she listens to that inner voice for the baby's sake... Maddie is a passionate woman... So she needs an equally passionate man... The David we know.
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Post by jpen on Nov 18, 2008 21:47:43 GMT -5
6. "Tracks of My Tears": This end of this episode is so freakin' painful to watch...I think the tears are everyone's: Maddie's, David's, and ours (and, I would posit, Cybill Shepherd's too...not sure about Bruce's feelings on this one).
The lyrics apply so obviously to David ("I might be laughing loud and hearty/deep inside I'm blue" and "Outside I'm masquerading/Inside my hope is fading/Just a clown/Since you put me down"). He has kept his pain inside for 4 1/2 months...has waited and waited and waited...and then Maddie announces she's married. WHAT THE...?! His reaction to her announcement is, naturally, shock, and also an almost manic need to not let her know how badly he's hurting.
But Maddie's hurting too (let's put aside, for a moment, the fact that she's ostensibly brought this situation on herself--damn you, writers!). The baby that she wanted to be David's isn't; everything is "a mess"--which, for someone who likes things to be clear-cut and definable, has to be quite painful. She feels guilty for running away, and sees no good way out of the situation. Her expression when David comes back into her office and suggests that they "take it from the top" says it all: the tears prickle in her eyes; she knows she's going to hurt him--again--and I think she regrets her marriage right then and there (and certainly when he takes her in his arms--she closes her eyes like she's really come home).
She spends the next two episodes almost begging David to look past her "smile" and see the pain--to see that he's the "permanent one", that Walter is just a "substitute" (even if he is a heckuva nice guy).
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 18, 2008 22:07:33 GMT -5
And she is feeling trapped--you can see it in her face, in the way she keeps going to the door and moving back from it--and you can hear it in all those damned wind chimes. Wow jpen, I had not thought about it! You're right! Question 3 It's a difficult question... Here's my answer: I believe Maddie wants the real David to "save" her from her wishes of perfection... All that stuff about reliability, controlled behaviour... All that junk she feels David has to embrace in order to become a model husband and father... All these things are symbolically smashed like those glass doors. Maddie craves it. She needs David to break her factitious dreams into pieces. She needs passion. She needs to get rid of her fears and finally become a spontaneous woman (look at how she rips his t-shirt!! That's what I would call " heat-driven spontaneity "! ) That's what that dream sequence means, in my opinion. Why does David disappear? Well, maybe because Maddie regains control over her emotions...once again... But the look on her face speaks for itself... She longs for David.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 18, 2008 22:15:45 GMT -5
Question 4 Your answers match EXACTLY what I wanted to say, so I won't repeat the same things... I don't think David calls Walter Mr. Pawn by mistake... Walter is really a pawn in this mess!! Certainly not a bishop...
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 18, 2008 22:39:55 GMT -5
Question 5 Part 1 (Maddie) a) I love the way Maddie picks up that toy in the dream sequence... It suggests that the thought of motherhood doesn't frighten her... Maybe she thinks she can be a good parent! I'm certain she'd have been GREAT at this. About her conversations with Walter... b) Maddie believes she's been married to David for 3 YEARS!! This is precisely the amount of time they've spent together since The Pilot!!! So... I guess that when Maddie called David "partner" in the previous Seasons... She really meant it!! Not just professionally! ;D ;D ;D c) I love the scene where Walter says: "I'm not exactly sure what I want to do with my life, yet. I'm still looking for this one, secret, magic thing that is gonna just click everything into focus"... I think this is Maddie's state of mind, too, despite the lies she says to him...and to herself... d) The line "Let's gamble!" is a bolt from the blue!! I mean, we're talking about Maddie! She's never been that spontaneous with anyone, not even with David... And now she makes such a proposal to a total stranger???
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 18, 2008 22:42:45 GMT -5
Yoo-hoo! Where is everybody? Having cocoa and marshmallows?
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