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Post by beesnbears on Apr 28, 2009 18:15:57 GMT -5
'Cause baby love, my baby love Been missing ya, miss kissing ya Instead of breaking up Let's do some kissing and making up Don't throw our love away In my arms why don't you stay Need ya, need ya Baby love, ooh, baby love…………Okay, these are the rules!! A. Do your best to answer questions 1-6 before answering #7. B. While I understand that this episode stirs many emotions, please do not forget that there are many different viewpoints as to how or why this episode came about and that we love and respect Moonlighting for what it is--- the best TV show ever!! C. Having said A and B, let the therapy begin….while in the privacy of your home throwing things is optional. Oh yeah...and have fun!! 1. Before we see Baby Hayes there are clues as to who the father is at the beginning of this episode. What are they? 2. What do you believe is the purpose of showing Baby Hayes the good and the bad parts of the world in which he will enter? 3. When Jerome is showing Baby Hayes a picture of his mother (Maddie) he describes her as “an extraordinary woman, bright, beautiful, a huge heart, though often times she pays it little heed. It’s the creators’ hope that your arrival will help amend this situation.” When Jerome describes Baby Hayes’s father (David) he says, “He has an extraordinary passion for life and an extraordinary passion for you mother.” Whose viewpoint do you believe Jerome is speaking from? “The Creator” The viewers? Or both? Once David is revealed as the father how did you originally react? Why do you suppose that this information was not revealed to David and Maddie? 4.What is your take on the Nanny For Hire business? Do you feel that this was out of character for David at this point in the show? 5. What is the significance of Bert and Agnes’s conversation in David’s office about parenthood? 6. Do you believe Maddie and David are “together”? Why or why not? (Yeah, I stole this one from the old thread, but it’s still a good question!) 7. What are your thoughts as to why the writers wrote this episode as they did? What’s with the musical number at the end? Is it comic relief or just a way to fill some time in the episode? Do you believe that had GGC still been an active writer in Season 5 that Maddie and David’s relationship would have survived the loss of their baby? Did you watch the commentary? Did it help you make any sense out of some of their choices? Are you jumping sharks?
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Post by lin212 on Apr 28, 2009 18:32:57 GMT -5
Wow, bees, great Qs! I really have to scratch my noggin' on these. While I won't jump to #7, I have to jump to #4 - the Nanny for Hire because this whole scene always bothered me. I think it is absolutely out of character for David at this point. All through S4, he is pining over Maddie, willing to give up his life for her, etc. In the finale, they finally come to an understanding and we are left with the hope that they are together. In the Nanny scene, David and Maddie don't feel like a couple to me. He seems like a friend who is trying to help her out. The David of S4 wouldn't have been ogling those girls - he only had eyes for Maddie. In this episode there is very little of D/M together, so it is a shame that this scene was wasted (IMHO). Don't get me wrong, the dialog was funny, but it's not what I wanted at this point.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
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Post by graycav56 on Apr 28, 2009 18:38:05 GMT -5
DEEP Q's.....are you a prosecuting attorney there bees???
This will be a LOOOONG evening! I better get re-watching!
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Post by jpen on Apr 28, 2009 18:42:47 GMT -5
Wow, bees, great Qs! I really have to scratch my noggin' on these. While I won't jump to #7, I have to jump to #4 - the Nanny for Hire because this whole scene always bothered me. I think it is absolutely out of character for David at this point. All through S4, he is pining over Maddie, willing to give up his life for her, etc. In the finale, they finally come to an understanding and we are left with the hope that they are together. In the Nanny scene, David and Maddie don't seem like a couple to me. He seems like a friend who is trying to help her out. The David of S4 wouldn't have been ogling those girls - he only had eyes for Maddie. In this episode there is very little of D/M together, so it is a shame that this scene was wasted (IMHO). Don't get me wrong, the dialog was funny, but it's not what I wanted at this point. Totally agree, lin. This scene just bugs me...David has moved so far beyond "peeping Dave" by Season 4. It felt to me like they were stretching for a joke, without really considering whether it was true to the character or not. And David's read all those pregnancy books...he would KNOW that you never make eyes at Barbie dolls when your significant other (or whatever) is 7 or 8 months pregnant--not unless you want some readjustments in your anatomy! And as for the time wasted between this scene and the opening dance number, it's crazy-making. There is so much more that could've been explored as far as David and Maddie's relationship...and there are so many other funny pregnancy-related things they could've done. Ugh.
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Post by lin212 on Apr 28, 2009 18:49:32 GMT -5
Jen, agree with your comment that "they were stretching for a joke, without really considering whether it was true to the character or not". And this was GGC! Of all people, he was the one (in the early years) who always insisted that the writing remain true to D and M. This was sorely off track. DOUBLE UGH!
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Post by lin212 on Apr 28, 2009 18:53:18 GMT -5
bees, I am a little confused about Q1. When asking about clues regarding the father of Baby Hayes, do you mean in this episode or up to this point in the series?
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Post by beesnbears on Apr 28, 2009 19:00:30 GMT -5
Lin, I am talking about the beginning of this episode. I modified the question. It was confusing!!
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Post by lin212 on Apr 28, 2009 19:04:37 GMT -5
#2 - The purpose of showing Baby Hayes the good and bad parts of the world:
Hmmmm....Jerome says that he is there for a visitation to prepare Baby Hayes for the world into which he is about to enter. Given that, I suppose it makes sense not only to introduce him to his parents, but also to give him a preview of what this world is all about (sorry for the dangling preposition)...the good, the bad and the ugly. Of course, it also gave the show an opportunity to do some really creative stuff with the montages...probably a bit innovative.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Apr 28, 2009 19:09:02 GMT -5
4.What is your take on the Nanny For Hire business? Do you feel that this was out of character for David at this point in the show?
As much as I hate to admit it, this was indeed a scene that was not in line with the “father to be” David.
OK, the eye candy was VERY appealing and kinda funny, but it just never sat right with me.
So, I agree with you folks.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Apr 28, 2009 19:13:43 GMT -5
1. Before we see Baby Hayes there are clues as to who the father is. What are they?
Gosh, other than the baby dancing to the Supremes (obviously a Motown favorite that David would like)…you got me there.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Apr 28, 2009 19:15:09 GMT -5
#2 - The purpose of showing Baby Hayes the good and bad parts of the world: Hmmmm....Jerome says that he is there for a visitation to prepare Baby Hayes for the world into which he is about to enter. Given that, I suppose it makes sense not only to introduce him to his parents, but also to give him a preview of what this world is all about (sorry for the dangling preposition)...the good, the bad and the ugly. Of course, it also gave the show an opportunity to do some really creative stuff with the montages...probably a bit innovative. My dangling position as well! I thought the entire Jerome deal was hugely creative and was pulled off with great skill. Even the incorporation of the clips from previous slows was done in an innovative way.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Apr 28, 2009 19:18:27 GMT -5
Once David is revealed as the father how did you originally react? Why do you suppose that this information was not revealed to David and Maddie?
I cheered! But of course I knew all along that Dave was the pop. His South Philly swimmers would beat out Sam’s Ivy League competition hands down!
I suppose the way things turned out there was no reason to determine paternity, unfortunately.
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Post by lin212 on Apr 28, 2009 19:18:56 GMT -5
1. Before we see Baby Hayes there are clues as to who the father is. What are they?Gosh, other than the baby dancing to the Supremes (obviously a Motown favorite that David would like)…you got me there. I'm with gray on this one. I keep replaying the beginning of the episode in my head, and other than the music, nothing comes to mind. I guess I have to re-rewatch.
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Post by lin212 on Apr 28, 2009 19:22:28 GMT -5
Gray, you are right...your avatar is exactly what I expected...and you didn't disappoint! Yippee!
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Apr 28, 2009 19:27:51 GMT -5
5. What is the significance of Bert and Agnes’s conversation in David’s office about parenthood?
I thought it was sweet of Agnes to bump up Bert’s confidence in the matter. For all his bravado, Bert isn’t the most confident guy out there, and you could understand why he would be concerned of his ability in the most important job out there, of being a parent.
But then, as cool as I was with what Agnes had done, I was then taken aback by her remark after she closed the door. Out of character for her and unnecessary. Bert was scared, not a jerk.
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