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Post by jpen on Jun 2, 2009 18:37:01 GMT -5
Happy Summer! It's the last day of school out here, so everyone's runnin' around hopped up on cookies and popsicles...that's what life's all about, isn't it? Anyway, here are your Q's for "Cool Hand Dave"--thanks to Rose and Diane for their contributions. Note: just to make things easier semantically, I'm referring to CHD as one episode in two parts. 1. As you probably know, this episode was inspired by the 1967 film "Cool Hand Luke," starring Paul Newman. What connection(s) do you see between the film and the ep? (If you haven't seen the film, you can check out some background info here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Hand_Luke) 2. When Bert spills the baby news to David, David responds, "Agnes knows?!" Do you think he is surprised that Agnes knew about the baby before he did, or that she knew that M/D had a "relationship" going on? 3. IMO, this episode is a great showcase for Agnes and Bert. What are your favorite A/B scenes and/or moments? The First Phone Call: 4. Do you think Maddie is angry that Agnes spilled the beans about the baby when David calls to tell her he knows, or do you think Maddie wanted Agnes to do just that? 5. Why do you think David's first words to Maddie are "How long have you known?" 6. Is the dynamic between them here "typical" Maddie and David? The Second Phone Call: 7. This episode directly precedes "Father Knows Last" in which David states that he asked Maddie to marry him and she refused. Do you think the "proposal" might have happened at any time during the CHD episodes? (no, it's not a cut scene in the scripts) 8. How do you feel about the big musical number in Part 2? 9. Do you think David changes during the course of this episode? 10. Does your reaction to Maddie change between M/D's initial phone conversation, and her messages at the end of Part 2? Do you think David's reaction to her changes? 11. "Cool Hand Dave" is the only two-part episode in all five seasons. Do you think this "needed" to be two hours long? Are there other episodes you would have liked to see get the "two-part" treatment? 12. Do you wish that David had made it to Chicago, tried to talk to Maddie, and then maybe came home without her (since Cybill needed to be off the show still due to real-life pregnancy)...or do you like it the way it was done?
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gorky
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Post by gorky on Jun 2, 2009 19:00:03 GMT -5
Excellent questions, jpen and company! I'll tackle 'em as answers come to me, if that's all right...
6. Is the dynamic between them here "typical" Maddie and David?
That first phone call just seems so...stilted, to me. I like that David calls Maddie out, in a way; I like that he's a little snide with her because, to be honest, she kind of deserves it. But Maddie's so hard to read during the exchange--her voice is just so flat--and I'm not a fan of the way she begs him not to come to Chicago. Also, it's weird to me that she's sitting right there by the phone, that she answers it on the first ring; clearly, she was expecting an important call--and I find it hard to believe that she didn't think David would be on the other end of the line. Which leads me to...
4. Do you think Maddie is angry that Agnes spilled the beans about the baby when David calls to tell her he knows, or do you think Maddie wanted Agnes to do just that?
I hadn't thought of it like that, but I think it makes perfect sense that Maddie was basically passing the burden of telling David about the baby, to Agnes. Not a great move on Maddie's part, although I do like that Agnes sensed the importance of the moment, and that she understood the trust Maddie placed in her. The Agnes/Maddie dynamic is such a complex one, really, and I like those moments where they are more friends than co-workers.
9. Do you think David changes during the course of this episode?
I think this episode is pretty depressing, in a lot of ways. I just feel so bad for David. For example, I found myself disproportionately upset when he was arrested at the bar; I mean, the guy just gets beat up on for two straight episodes, and you can't help but feel sorry for him. As for changing, though, I suppose he does--particularly in terms of his feelings about Maddie. I mean, his anger with her remains, but I think it kind of melts a bit into reluctant understanding by the end of part two, after he hears the messages. Part one ends with that bitter faux-dialogue--You're not his father, I didn't tell him about you--and David is clearly villainizing Maddie, picturing her as some shrew who is interested solely in hurting him. But, when he hears those messages--when Maddie tells him she loves him for respecting her wishes--I think he feels guilty, and also gains a bit of perspective. Yes, it's a bit manipulative of her to play the "If you care about me, you'll stay away from me" card; however, I think David now understands that Maddie needs to be alone, and that that does not equate to her no longer loving him.
I think, in a way, this episode is a great lead-in to "Father Knows Last", because--after the events of "Cool Hand Dave"--David has essentially given up the chase. He still loves Maddie, and she loves him, but the direct approach just isn't going to work.
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gorky
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Post by gorky on Jun 2, 2009 19:10:19 GMT -5
10. Does your reaction to Maddie change between M/D's initial phone conversation, and her messages at the end of Part 2? Do you think David's reaction to her changes?
My answer to question nine sort of covered this, but I have something to add about how David's persecution in "Cool Hand Dave" makes Maddie's seem like the bad guy. It occurred to me, maybe part-way through the first episode, that Maddie could never understand all the trouble and pain David went through, all because he wanted to see her. And how crappy it is that he comes home to these messages on his machine begging him not to come to Chicago, even though that has been his intent all along.
And I think that's my major issue with this episode: send-up of all those rough-and-tumble prison flicks or not, "Cool Hand Dave" basically turns David into the World's Biggest Martyr. Watch him suffer, all for Maddie. Watch his desparation, his struggle, his sorrow. And hate the woman who's putting him through all this.
Of course, I don't hate Maddie. That's why the writing here bothers me. I think this episode tries to make David the most sympathetic guy imaginable--but it does a great disservice to Maddie's character (much like the majority of season four, but I digress). I think the whole "I love you, David" thing at the end of the episode was meant to redeem her, slightly--so that we'd know that, regardless of the hell she may be putting the guy through, she still cares about him. But keeping the baby thing from him, and forbidding him to go to Chicago, and thanking him for not going--well, I think it's pretty clear who the bad guy was supposed to be.
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gorky
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Post by gorky on Jun 2, 2009 19:17:48 GMT -5
12. Do you wish that David had made it to Chicago, tried to talk to Maddie, and then maybe came home without her (since Cybill needed to be off the show still due to real-life pregnancy)...or do you like it the way it was done?Of course. This episode was filler--amusing filler, sure, but it's by no means the best Moonlighting has to offer--and I think it's kind of unfair to the audience. I mean, the first twenty minutes really do make you believe that David and Maddie are finally going to speak to each other, face-to-face. And when that doesn't happen, it's pretty disappointing. That said, I do like the realizations David comes to in this episode. (Namely, that "this woman is essential." Seriously, how sweet is that? ;D) This episode is all about longing, and thwarted attempts by David to connect with Maddie; in that sense, it succeeds very well, and makes you interested to see what happens next. The "Will Maddie Return? Whose Baby is It?" storyline propelled season four, and "Cool Hand Dave" is in-keeping with that theme. If David and Maddie had talked it all out too soon, what more was there to season four? Sure, we would've been satisfied that they were finally on the same page, but we still wouldn't have seen the two of them in scenes together, because Cybill was still gone. And I think we can all agree that the most basic problem of season four was that David and Maddie were never on-screen at the same time; the chemistry died, and so did a lot of fan interest. Man, I don't mean to come off as so bitter tonight, y'all. I really do enjoy "Cool Hand Dave". Promise.
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Post by beesnbears on Jun 2, 2009 19:18:20 GMT -5
1. As you probably know, this episode was inspired by the 1967 film "Cool Hand Luke," starring Paul Newman. What connection(s) do you see between the film and the ep?
It's been a while since I have seen the movie, but what comes to mind for me initially is the chain gang work digging ditches with the mean prison guard watching, the relationship between Luke/David and the other inmates and the tenacity Luke/David had in trying to escape.
I must say that David being taken to prison while trying to get to Maddie absolutely broke my 27yr. young heart!! I was sad for days!! ;D I felt so bad for him!!
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gorky
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Post by gorky on Jun 2, 2009 19:20:12 GMT -5
On a positive note: I wanted to be the first one to say that Bruce was smokin' in this episode, if ya catch my drift... ;D
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Post by beesnbears on Jun 2, 2009 19:22:10 GMT -5
2. When Bert spills the baby news to David, David responds, "Agnes knows?!" Do you think he is surprised that Agnes knew about the baby before he did, or that she knew that M/D had a "relationship" going on?
I don't think it was Agnes knowing about the relationship. David knew she knew about them all along.
By the look on his face, I think he was suprised, but mostly really hurt that Maddie didn't tell him first.
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gorky
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Post by gorky on Jun 2, 2009 19:25:30 GMT -5
11. "Cool Hand Dave" is the only two-part episode in all five seasons. Do you think this "needed" to be two hours long? Are there other episodes you would have liked to see get the "two-part" treatment?
Nah, it didn't need to be two parts. But I must say that I can't imagine it all crammed into 48 minutes, unless they'd lost a lot of the Bert/Agnes stuff. Which would've been a shame, since it's some of the best the episode has to offer.
As for episodes that could've used the two-part treatment--the finale comes to mind. I recently watched "Lunar Eclipse" for the first time, and it's just so rushed. I know a lot of that has to do with how abruptly the show was canceled, but I think a two-part episode could have explored the David-Maddie-Annie triangle much more thoroughly and clearly.
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Post by beesnbears on Jun 2, 2009 19:26:43 GMT -5
3. IMO, this episode is a great showcase for Agnes and Bert. What are your favorite A/B scenes and/or moments?
My favorite is when Agnes is listening to Maddie's message and she keeps saying "a baby" and then slaps her hand on her mouth. She knows it will be really hard to keep the secret.
I also like Bert's conversation with David..."Not just anyone, sir. You knocked up the boss!" ;D
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Post by lin212 on Jun 2, 2009 19:28:12 GMT -5
2. When Bert spills the baby news to David, David responds, "Agnes knows?!" Do you think he is surprised that Agnes knew about the baby before he did, or that she knew that M/D had a "relationship" going on?I don't think it was Agnes knowing about the relationship. David knew she knew about them all along. By the look on his face, I think he was suprised, but mostly really hurt that Maddie didn't tell him first. I'm with you on this, bees. I always felt that David was referring to the baby. And, you're right, he is hurt that Agnes knows before he does.
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gorky
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Post by gorky on Jun 2, 2009 19:29:43 GMT -5
5. Why do you think David's first words to Maddie are "How long have you known?"
This comes right on the heels of David discovering that Maddie told Agnes about the baby before she told him. I think this question kind of has a hidden meaning: "Who else did you tell before bothering to tell me?"
I guess it could also be his way of determining if Maddie left for Chicago because she was pregnant, of if she had only recently found out.
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gorky
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Post by gorky on Jun 2, 2009 19:33:45 GMT -5
7. This episode directly precedes "Father Knows Last" in which David states that he asked Maddie to marry him and she refused. Do you think the "proposal" might have happened at any time during the CHD episodes? (no, it's not a cut scene in the scripts)Ah, the mystery proposal. There's nothing in this episode indicating a time lapse during which David could have asked Maddie to marry him, which leads me to believe one of two things: 1.) David is misremembering; all that singing-- don't you dare hang up until she says "I do"--confused him. He thinks he asked her, when in reality he didn't. 2.) He's counting the rushed "Get a lawyer; he'll spring me out of jail and marry us in one fell swoop" spoken to a woman he thought was Maddie (but was actually her mother) as a proposal. Because I can only assume Mrs. Hayes politely rebuffed him.
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Post by lin212 on Jun 2, 2009 19:35:09 GMT -5
3. IMO, this episode is a great showcase for Agnes and Bert. What are your favorite A/B scenes and/or moments?
Agnes and Bert really are great in this episode. There are several memorable moments, but if I had to single any out, I would select the scene at the beginning of Part I when Bert is trying to apologize to Agnes for his bad behavior. Then I would pick the scene where Agnes chews Bert out for telling David about the baby. I love how Agnes pulls Bert into Maddie's office and how offended Bert is - after all, he is the acting supervisor of Blue Moon Investigations! Too funny.
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gorky
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Post by gorky on Jun 2, 2009 19:38:41 GMT -5
3. IMO, this episode is a great showcase for Agnes and Bert. What are your favorite A/B scenes and/or moments?
I like the post-serenade rendez-vous in Agnes's apartment. The way the music swells, the melodramatic dialogue, the creative use of guacomole--I think it's hilarious. Kind of reminiscent of Gone With the Wind to me, for some reason. And it shows what great sports Allyce and Curtis were. They sure had to do a lot of over-the-top, tongue-in-cheek romantic scenes, didn't they?
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Post by beesnbears on Jun 2, 2009 19:41:33 GMT -5
The First Phone Call: 4. Do you think Maddie is angry that Agnes spilled the beans about the baby when David calls to tell her he knows, or do you think Maddie wanted Agnes to do just that? I don't think she is angry with Agnes, but I also don't think she wanted her to tell David. Maddie did try to call David in the previous episode...only he was...ahem...occupied! I think she was a little caught off guard by his quick phone call and because of his tone she becomes afraid (again) and puts her Wall of China back up! I don't think Maddie would be so heartless as to not want to tell David herself. She was hoping to confide in Agnes and it backfired. 5. Why do you think David's first words to Maddie are "How long have you known?"I believe he is already afraid that the baby may be S(h)ams. He is doing the math...
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