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Post by rose35 on Jun 16, 2009 18:47:26 GMT -5
Hi all! Not sure how many of our dear group is around now that the summer has started, we didnt have anyone volunteer to do all questions so our JPEN has sent me a few great ones and i have a couple to add so if anyone else has a question or 2 they would like to add feel free to post it here! This episode in some parts for me is kinda hard to swallow. It's right after BAYAAHP so things for me should have been dealt with some more from the previous episode. Lets see what everyone else has to say about this one Hope to see some of you around for this! Ok well on to JPEN's questions: 1. What connection, if any, do you see between Nora Cooper's predicament, and Maddie and David's situation? 2. Anybody notice the mistake in the pool hall scene? 3. We know that David thinks he knows Maddie better than anyone. In what ways does Maddie show she knows David "like the front of her hand" in this episode? 4. Given that this episode comes on the heels of "Between a Yuk...", are we supposed to feel like Maddie and David are on a forward trajectory here? Is there hope for them in the future? From me:( hope mine make sense ) 5: In this episode Maddie uses a word that makes me cringe: PALS! BLECH! LOL How do you feel about that word during their office talk in the beginning? Do you feel thaTat that word could have been the undoing of the show? Who wanted to see M/D as PALS, we tuned into the show for thier romance. 6: The loss of the baby just occured 2 episodes ago but we didnt get any referance to what happened in this episode at all and none after for the rest of the season , do you feel there should have been a little more talk on the loss of the baby? Do you feel they acted the way they did in it because it was a way to avoid it? 7: anyone want to add a question? Ok that's now from me and JPEN, my kids are yelling for me to come outside and play LOL See ya soon!
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graycav56
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Post by graycav56 on Jun 16, 2009 19:01:54 GMT -5
1. What connection, if any, do you see between Nora Cooper's predicament, and Maddie and David's situation?
I see a couple of links. First, Nora marries a guy at Mardi Gras after only “knowing” him a short while. Smacks of the entire Walter incident on the train, no?
Second, upon the arrival of Charlie, she questions if the man she married is the man that is now at her door. Reminds me of the Pat Boone scenes where Maddie worries about a changed David.
I may be completely off base here, but I am sure others on the forum will indeed take me to task.
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graycav56
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Post by graycav56 on Jun 16, 2009 19:03:31 GMT -5
2. Anybody notice the mistake in the pool hall scene?
Ummm, not yet….but give me a few minutes!
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graycav56
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Post by graycav56 on Jun 16, 2009 19:13:50 GMT -5
2. Anybody notice the mistake in the pool hall scene?
Boy, ya got me! Other than the fact that it looks like Charlie hits in the 8 ball out of sequence and finishes with the 7 ball.
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graycav56
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Post by graycav56 on Jun 16, 2009 19:36:28 GMT -5
4. Given that this episode comes on the heels of "Between a Yuk...” are we supposed to feel like Maddie and David are on a forward trajectory here? Is there hope for them in the future?
I thought so. This episode ‘tried’ to get back into the case solving formula with a bit of D&M personal life thrown in. It wasn’t a complete success (see question 5) but it was a bit of an effort. I think they could have improved things, with a bit more elbow grease.
Now let me rant a bit about the declining production values in the show. How about the car scenes that were not filmed with the Bimmer on a trailer on real roads, but used rear projection? How about the cover of the Rolling Stones Honkeytonk Woman instead of the real deal? It just seemed, rather lackluster. Not terrible, not terrific, kinda milquetoast.
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graycav56
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Post by graycav56 on Jun 16, 2009 19:40:06 GMT -5
5: In this episode Maddie uses a word that makes me cringe: PALS! BLECH! LOL How do you feel about that word during their office talk in the beginning? Do you feel that word could have been the undoing of the show? Who wanted to see M/D as PALS, we tuned into the show for their romance.
Pals. Talk about throwing cold water on the hottest couple in television history! It is right up there with pact. No, WORSE, since this came much later. Was it the undoing of the show? Nah. That was an ongoing trend that we hashed over time and time again. It WAS however, one more lick on the envelope that sealed their doom.
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graycav56
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I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
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Post by graycav56 on Jun 16, 2009 19:45:30 GMT -5
6: The loss of the baby just occurred 2 episodes ago but we didn’t get any reference to what happened in this episode at all and none after for the rest of the season, do you feel there should have been a little more talk on the loss of the baby? Do you feel they acted the way they did in it because it was a way to avoid it?
They hosed up their chance in Yuk. The elevator scene started OK, and could have been one of those defining instances in TV history. Unfortunately they wasted it with the singing in the hallway that followed.
I don’t think the writing team for Season 5 had the talent to properly address the situation, so they did what most folks do…the ignored the 300 lb gorilla in the room. The writers didn’t care, so Dave and Maddie didn’t care, and ultimately, we didn’t either. Boy, am I melancholy tonight or what?
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Post by lin212 on Jun 16, 2009 20:11:44 GMT -5
Hope you don't mind if I jump around here. I'd like to start with this one because it relates to something I have been contemplating.
4. Given that this episode comes on the heels of "Between a Yuk...", are we supposed to feel like Maddie and David are on a forward trajectory here? Is there hope for them in the future?
At first glance, the PALS thing (which I also hate) makes it sound as if they are over. However, I see similarities with THH. In that episode, Maddie wakes up the morning after and decides that they are not right for each other. It is over. She wants to forget it. Ever so subtly, David works her all through the episode until she finally admits to herself that they are meant for each other. We see them in the car careening down the hill.
Likewise, in this episode, Maddie tries to keep David at a distance. Here, David works Maddie to demonstrate that he knows her better than anyone. In the end, she pounces on him, sending them both into the cement. And the final scene is very intimate and flirtatious. It would seem that, much like in THH, Maddie realizes that she and David are much more than pals. She seems to be coming on to him in that final scene. I think that there still was hope for romance at this point.
Given that, there is little continuity between YUK and this episode, IMHO. In YUK, Maddie seems to be reaching out to David. She misses him and questions why he is avoiding the office. She needs him to comfort her at this time, but he is nowhere to be found. After the elevator scene, they seem close - holding hands, David's references to the "wife" and the "meatloaf in the oven". It could lead us to believe that they are going to resume their relationship. So how does Maddie go from that to the PALS thing? Is it another instance of pushing David away only to pull him back at the end of the episode?
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Post by lin212 on Jun 16, 2009 20:18:23 GMT -5
gray, I am so glad you mentioned the rear projection. It absolutely drives me crazy! It is so cheesy and lame. UGH!!
Oh yeah, another thing - SUPER AVATAR! You look mighty handsome in your tux. I am sure that Maddie is very impressed.
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graycav56
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Post by graycav56 on Jun 16, 2009 20:26:15 GMT -5
gray, I am so glad you mentioned the rear projection. It absolutely drives me crazy! It is so cheesy and lame. UGH!! Oh yeah, another thing - SUPER AVATAR! You look mighty handsome in your tux. I am sure that Maddie is very impressed. The car deal was always a centerpiece of the show. I know they were doing less and less "on location" shots and doing mostly in studio, but the conversations in the Bimmer were always critical to the development of the plot, and their relationship. This particular cost cutting was very noticable, and very damaging. Glad you like the photo. Maddie did look incredibly yummy in that final scene. Makes my heart skip a beat every time I see it.
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Post by beesnbears on Jun 16, 2009 20:30:34 GMT -5
1. What connection, if any, do you see between Nora Cooper's predicament, and Maddie and David's situation?I see a couple of links. First, Nora marries a guy at Mardi Gras after only “knowing” him a short while. Smacks of the entire Walter incident on the train, no? Second, upon the arrival of Charlie, she questions if the man she married is the man that is now at her door. Reminds me of the Pat Boone scenes where Maddie worries about a changed David. I may be completely off base here, but I am sure others on the forum will indeed take me to task. You are not off base at all!! In fact, you knocked it out of the park Gray! Nora Cooper was a lonely woman much in the same sense as Maddie, looking for companionship, love, etc. Only for Maddie these things have been there all along. She knows it and starts to actually admit it..."we are on this ladder....don't know where it leads...don't look down"...that little heart to heart with David was exactly what they needed--- an actual sincere discussion about themselves and how they feel. Could they have talked more about other issues? YES! but, this is ML folks! Gray---very nice avatar this evening---give the guy another star!!
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graycav56
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I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
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Post by graycav56 on Jun 16, 2009 20:33:46 GMT -5
One other thing that bugged me was when Maddie pulls up outside the pool hall. She KICKS the car door open. NOT very ladylike. Maddie takes care of her possessions and putting a heel to the door of a VERY expensive German Sports Coupe isn't in character.
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Post by beesnbears on Jun 16, 2009 20:40:23 GMT -5
3. We know that David thinks he knows Maddie better than anyone. In what ways does Maddie show she knows David "like the front of her hand" in this episode?
This is a good question because I think this reveals more about how Maddie has changed...or how David has "filled in her blanks". And how she may have actually considered or come to terms with the fact that she could actually make a life with someone like David.
She states that she is going to be more accepting of David and his office flaws, quirks, etc. And she also says later that she knows why David is being glib about the status of their relationship. She knows he wants more while trying to hide it behind the glibness.
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Post by beesnbears on Jun 16, 2009 20:46:21 GMT -5
4. Given that this episode comes on the heels of "Between a Yuk...", are we supposed to feel like Maddie and David are on a forward trajectory here? Is there hope for them in the future?
I think so, but I think after this ep the whole thing just falls into a black hole somewhere and can never come out...
Some sparks here and there and the whole Annie thing comes later to stir interest, but the S5 writers just couldn't get the magic back. Don't get me wrong, there are actually some good episodes and Cybill and Bruce were still great, imo, but it just was never the same.
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graycav56
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Post by graycav56 on Jun 16, 2009 20:49:02 GMT -5
3. We know that David thinks he knows Maddie better than anyone. In what ways does Maddie show she knows David "like the front of her hand" in this episode? This is a good question because I think this reveals more about how Maddie has changed...or how David has "filled in her blanks". And how she may have actually considered or come to terms with the fact that she could actually make a life with someone like David. She states that she is going to be more accepting of David and his office flaws, quirks, etc. And she also says later that she knows why David is being glib about the status of their relationship. She knows he wants more while trying to hide it behind the glibness. Agree. In earlier seasons, it was David who was the enigma. He with the mysterious past and evening adventures. Starting in late season three, it was Maddie who was filled with surprises...some good, some shocking. I liked the surprise she pulled on old Dave with regards to her pool capabilities. I wonder what else was buried in that honey blonde noggin that we will never get to discover.
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