Post by maddieaddisonjr on Jun 25, 2007 7:51:38 GMT -5
I've gotten over the bitterness this second time around about how ML ended and certain other parts of the last two seasons. I still love this show and that won't change. I'm just curious about everyone's point of view.
What was the actual jump-the-shark moment in Moonlighting for you? Or maybe there wasn't one?
After a little consideration, I've decided that the JTSM was definitely not D/M coming together in 'I Am Curious...Maddie.' I never thought that. It also wasn't Maddie's rejection of David which intensified in a rather depressing way for me as a viewer in 'A Trip To the Moon.' (Isn't this show a romantic dramedy - emphasis on the comedy??) Nor was it the ridiculous Maddie/Walter marriage or any other part of season 4.
It was the season 5 episode 'Between a Yuk and a Hard Place.' Like the beginning of an earthquake the initial rumblings of the JTSM started with the emotional distance between David and Maddie right after they lost the baby. The tremors increased when they skipped down the hall nonsensically singing spirituals after the lackluster breakdown in the elevator. But skyscrapers fell on my head, permanently damaging my hair-do, when immediately afterwards, within the same episode, D/M become a slapstick buddy team - as if they didn't display serious feelings for each other not two episodes ago; as if the baby and the loss of the him never happened; as if the last four seasons were a completely different show. Yes indeed, 'Between a Yuk and a Hard Place' - that's the moment ML as I knew it ended. To be honest, I did enjoy some of the goofy slapstick but it just wasn't the same show I loved.
Thanks diane for the link and thanks jr. for the topic. (and jr. I am right there with your hatred of Yuk) I enjoyed reading the comments. I really go back and forth on this one. Sex, separation, baby, Walter, dead baby, elevator, Annie. They all make good candidates for the jts moment.
I do think the show peaked when they had sex (actually I think it was still peaking in the wonderful Heiress). In retrospect, it was indeed all downhill from there, which is actually kind of literal in that I consider the backwards careening of the BMW down that hill the last moment of the show's peak. So in that sense perhaps sex was the jts moment. But I don't think it was the jts moment in the sense that you knew or felt at the time that it was all over for the show. I certainly didn't feel then that there really was nothing left to watch for. I think the show still had great potential and I was still completely interested and engaged. I wanted to see them dance their way toward commitment in the same fiery and furious and infuriating way they had danced their way to the bedroom. I didn't want an endless angst-ridden soap opera (no matter how well done in spots).
It was the bad creative choices made in reaction to Cybill's pregnancy that killed the show. But which bad creative choice to blame as the show's death blow? I think I'll go with Walter. The separation was trying and the pregnancy was ill-conceived, sorry about the pun, and the baby, if and once born, would have killed the show by requiring absolute commitment and domesticity between them. But Walter got there first, and he was just a colossal blunder. At that point, I felt like the show had broken faith with its viewers. Cybill was back on set. The enforced separation was over. There was no need to create artificial and cruel and out-of-character barriers between them now. They had enough barriers with their respective psyches and hang-ups and natural incompatibilities to keep the dance between them going. I think at that point the writers/producers (GGC included) were just floundering creatively and had lost touch with what Moonlighting was supposed to be. Walter was just gratuitous cruelty (as was the miscarriage, but once again Walter got there first).
I will say that while Walter may have been the pivotal bad creative choice in the sequence of bad choices that killed the show, I agree with you jr that Yuk was also pivotal in the demise of Moonlighting. To me that elevator scene and its aftermath is the death rattle for the show. Walter may have been a mortal blow, but the show was still conscious and kicking for awhile after that and might have still been nursed along enough to die with some dignity in its fifth season. But the show went on life support with no hope of recovering sufficiently to bring the curtain down with style and grace in that elevator, and I knew it as soon as they skipped out of there and into that pointless and unfunny menagerie of birds and cactus patches. So sad.
After the initial experience of Lunar Eclipse - back on my early teenage years - and watching the DVDs (more than a couple of times and still viewing ;D ), I don't know if I can detect the EXACT moment that the show "Jumped the shark"; it's more like it was "jumping" it progressively and the bad writing choices - among with fate - led Moonlighting to an exhausting halt.
Allow me to elaborate on that.
After Maddie and David had sex, the show entered another level of intimacy. I do not agree that it peaked, because it was not the same show anymore. The show changed direction after "It's a Wonderful Job". The writers here turned away from the screwball-like storytelling and started to get serious about D/M relationship. Of course this was caused by the fact that the fans wanted them to consummate their relationship, but ML lost the sense of balance it had among situations; it got overly pessimistic and soapy. After the IACM resolve and in "To Heiress Human" the show did tried to recapture some of it's quirkieness by their emotional screwballness, but failed to exploit that area enough. This was the first jts moment.
Upon entering Season 4, the writers failed to use Cybill's pregnancy to make the characters stronger. Indeed ML depended a lot on their physical appearance on the set, but they disturbed the balance of power in David's favour. Sure, Cybill was not available for shooting, but they could use other means to keep the characters "in sync", especially about how she was feeling all that time away.
Some time ago, I came across this site where I stumbled upon a section called "Maddie's Diary". Maddie is a heavy thinker, so it is logical for her to keep a diary of her thoughts. Upon reading it, it helped me to see things from her view, too. On "Take a left at the altair" David wrote to Maddie. Just imagine how things could be different - and even better - if the writers kept this communication channel open, by letting Maddie exchange thoughts and emotions with David this way. That was the second jts moment for me; we only got David David David and no Maddie Maddie Maddie and this led to people disliking her. If you haven't done so, I suggest that you read the whole diary , it will change your perspective about Maddie in 4th season.[/b]
Maybe the writers tried to imply that this communication took place during Maddie's absence, but there is a big difference between implying and portraying. I doubt that they even thought of it and it's a shame because it would help the show to keep the momentum and prepare the viewers for her comeback.
Without "Maddie's Diary", the whole Walter scenario does not make sense; it does not explain the procedural thinking that entered Maddie in a state of panic while she was returning to Los Angeles. There was no emotional link between going to Chicago and returning home. That was the reason the viewers thought of this Walter scenario as a cheap tension creation device. So, without Maddie's Diary, we have another jts moment here. If however, we had a scenario like the one described in Maddie's Diary, the show would have reached another peak moment and Maddie's wedding - that parody - would resolve a lot of things and would be another hit moment of the show (because the writing of that episode was excellent).
After that, the show was doomed, no matter what they've tried. The death of their baby was a sad moment, but it was not a jts moment for me; it could not be done otherwise. With all the events portrayed - actually their lack of - during Season 4, David and Maddie were not actually ready to be parents, simply because there was no emotional link between them anymore and the magic was gone. Their relationship was based on "obligation" rather on "love" and clearly that wouldn't have worked further.
Maybe if the show was given some more time, it could have ended in a somewhat upbeat mode, but Season 4 managed a lot of crucial and direct hits to it's soul that were too big to recover. And I do not take into account the outside-the-set events that were taking place back then and had their poll also to the show's demise.
I saw this site on the net;I thought that maybe someone would have been inerested... [ftp]http://www.jumptheshark.com/topic/moonlighting-general-comments/1342[/ftp] I'm really really sorry that most of the people think that the real JTS was the big bang...
I think really JTS was when Glenn Gordon Caron has lost ideas and interest. For example his Medium, there Allison and Joe they sleep together almost every night and what.
I think so, too. It seems like he lost interest after S4. I don't know, season 4/5 were just not up to par with the first three seasons.
I really believe for me, the JTS, was Walter Bishop. It was ridiculous and out of character for Maddie (who is never spontaneous) to just get married after a few days riding the train. It was nice that they eventually got that marriage annulled. By "Womb With A View" in S5, I thought we might get somewhere with the baby and all, BUT here's the thing. Who's baby was it? In the S4 Maddie says the paternity of the baby isn't important to her. She just wants someone to step in there and help out. I LOVED that it turned out to be David's baby and would've loved for them to have had the baby. However, what I didn't like was that David DID NOT KNOW it was THEIR baby and of course, the miscarriage. Then the way they both carried on afterward "Between A Yuk and A Hard Place.
Post by ilovewilliscirca88 on Jan 6, 2013 8:59:42 GMT -5
Ok, I've given this a lot of thought and finally come to a conclusion on what my vote is for the ML 'Jump the Shark' moment. I actually have it pinpointed to the very minute it happened.
In my opinion it is in the episode 'Tracks of my Tears' - when Maddie comes back to the office and she and David go into her office. Right at that moment when David is being so sweet, giving her little kisses and saying how much he missed her - suddenly she says the words - "David, I'm Married" - BOOM, done, over - that's it, that's the moment the show went from bad to worse.
It's just the straw that breaks the 'Moonlighting camels' back - after 4 months of making David wait (making VIEWERS wait!), after he has jumped through all of her hoops and done everything she's asked like don't call, don't come to Chicago, after seeing his face when she first comes back to the office and he finally gets to see her again - this final blow is too much to take. I actually HATE this episode, everything about it. I did when it first aired and I do now.
It's not Walter Bishop and it's not because they slept together or anything else - it's just that she has stabbed David in the heart one last time after he has been so miserable waiting for her - there is no recovery for the relationship between Maddie and David after this - he's lost all respect, she's kicked him while he's down and taken some pleasure in it - as far as I can tell - all his feelings for her went out the window at that moment.
Anyway...that's the defining moment for me. Why the writers and GGC ever made that choice is beyond me! Sad.
Post by finefinegoodgood on Jan 6, 2013 12:12:53 GMT -5
ilovewilliscirca88 I could not agree more. This is the jump the shark moment. But there is nothing I love more than the look they exchange when they first see each other in the office. The episode just has to change. She cant say "David, I'm Married"...she needs to change that. Something more like, "David, I missed you" yeah...I like that better. :-)
Ilovewillis I completely agree with you. I can remember watching every show waiting for the David and Maddie reunion and finally getting it only to have Maddie say she was married to some guy. I felt like I had been gut punched. Poor David I remember thinking "that's it, I'm done with this show." Of course I kept watching anyway hoping for a turnaround but it just was not the same show to me after that. Still sickens me today. ugh!!
Post by ilovewilliscirca88 on Jan 6, 2013 18:59:42 GMT -5
Yep ryangie97, you're right, it felt like a punch in the gut then, and every time I've watched it since. I remember when that episode first aired - as a viewer I had so much anticipation of Maddie coming home and then they wasted so much time on that train getting her back there - then, when she comes into the office she acts like she doesn't want to be there. Then she drops the bomb on David. Nice, thanks for a fun episode Moonlighting. I thought the same thing in that moment - "I'm done with this show." yuk!
Post by ilovewilliscirca88 on Jan 6, 2013 19:05:43 GMT -5
Love the avatar (and quote) finefinegoodgood - yes, "David, I've missed you and I'm so glad to be home..." would have been the right direction to take this episode. Oh also, I hate the whole episode except for the steamy love scene of course (which was just a dream!!
I agree with you that was when the show just stopped being the show we love. The writers made Maddie a bit strange in most of Season 4, but from this point they made her cruel.
If only the writers and those in charge had bothered to rewatch the first three seasons they would've remembered that their writing and Cybill's portrayal of Maddie made her a complex but wonderful character - a tough cookie who was also soft as butter. Maddie in the early seasons is beautiful inside and out, even when she is arguing and being a nightmare. She becomes a whole other character from this 'moment' onwards and its no wonder Cybill wasn't happy with it.
Amazing how this still bothers us after all these years but the fans invested so much energy into these characters and it feels like GGC and others stopped being bothered and were more interested in stock characters.
"You can lead a horse to water, but that doesn't make it a duck"