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Post by lin212 on Jan 26, 2010 21:52:54 GMT -5
7. Any thoughts of why Maddie took out her anger on her father physically? Do you feel it was true to her character?I think it is her perfectly. From the punch in the pilot to the serial door slamming, to grabbing David by the collar on several occasions, Maddie is not one to shy away from physicality when she feels it is necessary. I think she was pissed at pop for not only running around on mom, but for shattering her beliefs in her infallible father. I get the vibe that Maddie never went through that period where her dad went from a superhero to one that no longer measured up to her standards (something that a buddy of mine is going through with HIS 13 year old daughter.) My sentiments exactly. You stole my answer, gray, but that's OK - you saved me from typing a whole lot of explanation. When Maddie is fuming, she strikes out "spontaneously". Her reaction is immediate and without forethought. Pummeling her father is very true to character.
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 26, 2010 21:54:49 GMT -5
Listening to Cybill on the commentary, and exploring my own feelings about this episode, leads me to believe this is more of a woman's episode. Gray, can you give us the guy's perspective on this one? And does anyone agree or disagree with my view?
I think this is more of a woman's episode in the sense that it explores a father/daughter dynamic in the midst of one having an affair.
If the tables were turned? Hmmmm..I can see David being angry with his own father if his mother was hurt. Yet, as long as his mother didn't know, I can see him staying silent. Silent, but concerned. If his mother were having the affair? I could see him reacting by possibly becoming overprotective of his mother and investigating the man she is having the affair with. Other than that, I think he would try to not get in the middle of it all.
If it were Maddie's mom having the affair? I think she would still be shocked and hurt because she is so close to her dad.
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 26, 2010 22:12:59 GMT -5
8. In my opinion, Cybill is absolutely amazing in this episode. What's your favorite scene and why?
While I think Cybill was at her best in the hotel scene, my favorite is the scene where David returns to tell her what he found. Those two standing in the doorway at Blue Moon speaks volumes about how they feel about each other and to some extent, the trust they have of each other. David's hesitation to hand over information reveals his desire to protect her from anything that could hurt her. And for Maddie to let him investigate the matter in the first place is very revealing as to her trust and feelings for him.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 26, 2010 22:16:50 GMT -5
OK, by popular demand: Had to throw at least ONE pic in there in my ML age! See, haven't changed one bit! (snicker)
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 26, 2010 22:24:44 GMT -5
5. There is great chemistry in the scene when David offers to be Maddie's detective....and then he breaks it by cracking wise about the photos. Was he just being David or did he changing the mood intentionally?
I always felt like he was just trying to lighten up the situation. I vote "Just being David".
Gray!! You are too much!! ;D I officially have the giggles now! Remember!! We are like fine wine at our age!
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 26, 2010 22:34:26 GMT -5
And I loved Cybill in the commentary.....much more than the long awaited season 3 reunion of the big 3.......I think she was much more relaxed, and genuine. And I love that she did her homework -- how very Maddie-like of her. I agree. She took the time to give the fans something special and I for one am very grateful!
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Post by jpen on Jan 26, 2010 23:25:19 GMT -5
Well, I'm jumping in late to a great discussion of an outstanding episode--one of my top 5, definitely!
When I was rewatching today, I remembered how shocked I was, back in the day, that Mr. Hayes was actually having an affair. In the first half of the episode, I was sure that the writers were just building the whole thing up, only to have it be a case of mistaken identity or jumping to conclusions. As I recall, TV characters back then tended to be much more black and white (at least on the shows I was watching)--so Mr. Hayes couldn't be cheating on the missus, 'cause that would make him a bad guy, right?! And he couldn't be a bad guy, not if Maddie loved and admired him so much, right?!
Thus went my teenage logic, anyway. So the last half of the ep was even more gut-wrenching, particularly Maddie and Alex in the hotel room, because I really didn't see it coming.
Watching it now, I'm just awed by the authenticity of interaction and emotion from all four of the actors. Absolutely believable, there's anger and sadness and humiliation and hurt...and little undercurrents of humor and love that keep you from wanting to stick your head in the nearest oven. Just...amazing.
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Post by jpen on Jan 26, 2010 23:33:26 GMT -5
7. Any thoughts of why Maddie took out her anger on her father physically? Do you feel it was true to her character?I think it is her perfectly. From the punch in the pilot to the serial door slamming, to grabbing David by the collar on several occasions, Maddie is not one to shy away from physicality when she feels it is necessary. I think she was pissed at pop for not only running around on mom, but for shattering her beliefs in her infallible father. I get the vibe that Maddie never went through that period where her dad went from a superhero to one that no longer measured up to her standards (something that a buddy of mine is going through with HIS 13 year old daughter.) My sentiments exactly. You stole my answer, gray, but that's OK - you saved me from typing a whole lot of explanation. When Maddie is fuming, she strikes out "spontaneously". Her reaction is immediate and without forethought. Pummeling her father is very true to character. Yep, me too, gray. There's something about the father/daughter dynamic that does encourage the hero-worship thing...and it's doubly devastating for Maddie here: not only is Alex not the man of integrity that she had always thought he was, but he's hurt her mother, about whom Maddie clearly feels protective. His unjust complaints about Virginia's odd behavior just push her over the edge...can't say I blame her!
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 26, 2010 23:34:08 GMT -5
Watching it now, I'm just awed by the authenticity of interaction and emotion from all four of the actors. Absolutely believable, there's anger and sadness and humiliation and hurt...and little undercurrents of humor and love that keep you from wanting to stick your head in the nearest oven. Just...amazing. It's pretty cool that we are STILL watching and now discussing. What would it have been like if this board had been around back then?! Probably computers exploding everywhere... Pretty cool that we still want to put our heads in an oven at times, too! ;D
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Post by jpen on Jan 26, 2010 23:39:23 GMT -5
1. The bumper at the beginning of the episode is, believe it or not, in the script -- although it is billed as "Special Opening" (This is an episode for which I have a very late script.....dated 2/14 for a 2/18 airing).
Soooooo....how did you like this opening?Oh, I could watch this over and over. It's a great comedic beginning to a very intense episode. My favorite thing about it is when Maddie says, "This isn't how I've imagined it...I always thought it would be at the end of an episode", etc. I always feel like shouting, "Aha! See, Maddie? You have thought about it!" ;D And I love that they gave the viewers the answer to their "questions" in the very next episode--but in a totally unexpected way.
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Post by jpen on Jan 26, 2010 23:53:41 GMT -5
3. What is your first impression about the relationship between Maddie and her parents, and specifically her father? Can you project forward to the season 4 episodes with them, and do those impressions hold true?
Well, it's clear that Alex has high standards, and Maddie feels some pressure to live up to his definition of success. It's equally clear that Virginia just loves her, unconditionally, and is more concerned with Maddie's happiness than the square footage of her office. (Or maybe I'm projecting personal experience here. I think there's remarkable continuity in their characters into season four. I even think you could argue that Alex's behavior in "Father Knows Last" is shaded by the events of this episode, which is pretty impressive on the part of the writers.
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Post by jpen on Jan 27, 2010 0:02:17 GMT -5
6. In the commentary, Glenn comments on the amount of time without dialogue in this episode. Do you feel it enhances or detracts from the story?
Enhances it, unquestionably. The most powerful moments between Maddie and David are almost always silent ones. Language is a plaything for them (and sometimes a weapon), but it's rarely used to communicate their deepest thoughts or desires--in fact, when they're at their most honest, verbally, they usually say just the opposite of what they mean ("I hate you, David Addison!").
It's a testament to the brilliance of the writers that they can weave silence into the script as skillfully as fast-talking banter...but an even bigger testament to the absolute commitment of the actors in making that silence speak volumes.
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
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Post by witness on Jan 27, 2010 1:33:09 GMT -5
One telling thing was where Mrs. Hayes mentioned that she heard alot about David, obviously from Maddie. Hmmm. Yeah, gray, I always loved how she says it, kind of girlish and flirty. It's as though when "hearing a great deal" about David, she got the sense from Maddie of a potential relationship on the horizon. This motherly instinct carries over to S4.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 27, 2010 16:12:22 GMT -5
So, Diane...how about those deleted scenes?
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
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Post by witness on Jan 28, 2010 2:08:51 GMT -5
2. Why is Maddie so nervous? Does this say something about her relationship with her parents, or just generalize the relationships between parents and children? 3. What is your first impression about the relationship between Maddie and her parents, and specifically her father? Can you project forward to the season 4 episodes with them, and do those impressions hold true? As others have said, Maddie is nervous because she wants to make a good impression--as a business person for her dad, as a woman who is doing something more meaningful than modeling, even if it's not having a family, for her mom. If you recall from S1, Maddie tells Preston Holt that her "mother still didn't understand" even when her modeling career started taking off. Her anxiety generally reflects what goes on between parents and their adult children. The casting of Alex and Virginia was pure genius. Robert, Eva, and Cybill = family. As often is the case with mothers and daughters, Ginny and Maddie had to struggle through the teen years ("...16 years of age, cursing at her mother like a sailor") to become best friends and confidantes. When Ginny confesses her fears, Maddie looks at her in shock: "Dad?" Seeing Maddie's reaction, she wishes she could take it all back, knowing how Maddie reveres and worships her father.
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