goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 31, 2011 16:09:51 GMT -5
Goldie, take this: COMPLETELY AGREE!!! ;D Perfectly understandable that her pregnancy multiplied her confusion, plus given the fact she couldn't be sure who was the father... it was not the right thing to do, because David of course had a right to know about it, and it was definitely too long (and I think the longer she stayed the more difficult it became to go back) but - perfectly understandable. AGREE? ? You mean seriously? I feel strange Ok, ok, I'll try to be serious now (I'm trying very hard here )yes, her behaviour is very understandable, but it upsets me at the same time. I always wanted her to ran with her problems to David and not from him. But I understand why she did it, but it is still very hurtful. (especially for our guy )
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Post by sandra on Jan 31, 2011 16:59:12 GMT -5
Goldie, take this: COMPLETELY AGREE!!! ;D Perfectly understandable that her pregnancy multiplied her confusion, plus given the fact she couldn't be sure who was the father... it was not the right thing to do, because David of course had a right to know about it, and it was definitely too long (and I think the longer she stayed the more difficult it became to go back) but - perfectly understandable. AGREE? ? You mean seriously? I feel strange Ok, ok, I'll try to be serious now (I'm trying very hard here )yes, her behaviour is very understandable, but it upsets me at the same time. I always wanted her to ran with her problems to David and not from him. But I understand why she did it, but it is still very hurtful. (especially for our guy ) goldie, I'm LMAO here!!! Don't tell me we're switching sides now? No, just kidding, no taking sides, we love them both, don't we? Of course, it upsets me too. Understandable, but not right the same time.
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Post by maddieaddisonjr on Feb 6, 2011 18:49:22 GMT -5
Hi, everyone. Honestly, I don't give Maddie much slack for this even if she was pregnant. She's a 36 (?) year old woman who owns a business and is in a relationship with a man - in Los Angeles. It makes no sense to me why it would take four months for her to decide what she wants to do about her relationship with David, the baby and Blue Moon - from her childhood bedroom in Chicago. It made even less sense for her to marry a stranger on a train. Seriously? I know I'm being hard on Maddie but her behavior during most of the fourth season was so far out of character to me that she became annoying. I did love Cybill and Bruce being onscreen together again towards the end of the season and there were some golden moments there. I wish they had just stopped shooting episodes until Cybill had her babies because the writers did not handle her pregnancy well.
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Post by sandra on Feb 7, 2011 1:11:17 GMT -5
Well, mmaddieaddisonjr., I think her Pregnancy makes it maybe understandable to hide away for a bit, not the extended length of her stay, I agree with you.
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myfairdavid
2nd Level
"I hate you, David Addison." ~ Maddie "I know. I hate you, too, Maddie Hayes." ~ David
Posts: 473
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Post by myfairdavid on Feb 17, 2011 16:48:15 GMT -5
OK. I have watched and re-watched, and re-watched this episode. ;D The relationship had become really serious at this point. Things sort of changed after "Be My Baby". Maddie and David both seem very different in this episode. I really don't understand, though, why Maddie had to leave David w/o telling him and go to Chicago. In many ways, I feel he treated her so much better than she treated him. I guess the point is, you can REALLY see now, the impact Maddie has made in David's life. He's completely, totally, hopelessly in love. le-sigh. I really do believe that he would do ANYTHING for her. He loved her so much. I love the way he tells Mr. Hayes how it REALLY is. But, that's another epi. David was absolutely heartbroken when he went to Maddie's house and found out she had just took up and left. I really felt for him them. My poor baby. And you could tell that he was just miserable most of Season 4. And I understand how that led to his destruction of the bimmer in the next epi. He was really hurt. I can really feel his pain in A Trip To the Moon. I really can. And I do feel for Maddie, but she shouldn't have just left. That's not going to solve any problems. Moreover, I have more sympathy for David, than I do Maddie in this epi and most of this season. It was so nice when Maddie came home and she saw David again. Oh, they are so beautiful together. Stupid Walter Bishop and that train.
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Post by bluemoonshampoo on Feb 26, 2011 11:48:43 GMT -5
1. At the end of "To Heiress Human," we left our favorite couple on the verge of being caught in flagrante Bimmer. What were you expecting from the Season 4 premiere? In what ways does TttM hit or miss the mark?
Well at first I was OMG yes yes yes, she's woken up in his bed...this is gonna be good! Yet, GGC just couldn't let it be nice huh? Don't get me wrong, I fully appreciated the shots of David in a towel - hot! His 'Die Hard' body :-) I have to admit, I was disappointed :-( I mean there David was wanting what we wanted- moving the relationship forward and there she was saying what relationship? Maddie my sweet - you already know each other so well- it's not like you just met and he's got to take you out to get to know you! - Although, one nice thing - they did seem a lot more relaxed in the morning routine- regardless of this little dispute - I thought it suggested that they were pretty relaxed over the last 4 weeks - cute that he's been shaving with her pink razor ;-)
2. Let's talk about "The BlueMooners." What do you think is the significance of Maddie having this particular dream sequence, rather than David? Do you think "The Honeymooners" was a good vehicle? (And, BTW, how GREAT is Charles Rocket?! )
I love the opening to this episode (maybe we should do a top 6 best openings?) and yes Charles Rocket quite literally rocked! That is was Maddie's dream? Well that dream suggested that she knows he loves her and that its real...but that she still has these reservations and of course, that need to fly the coop every time things get tough. Hmmmm. I don't know about you but despite it being a funny sequence it was so tinged with pathos. Clever GGC but maybe too clever- preparing us for her leaving :-( a the end of such a hopeful episode.
3. Maddie's angst is pretty palpable from the moment she sits up in bed. What have these past weeks meant (or revealed) to her? How does her view of their relationship reflect her personality?
Oh Maddie, Maddie, Maddie...she is agonising over the fact that she is enjoying her physical relationship but she's still not comfortable with the fit - so to speak. Analyse, analyse, analyse... 'Oh to be, or not to be?' GRRRRR. It breaks my heart. I wish that she just let him bring a few things over and just saw how it went...but that's not Maddie's personality huh?
4. "I feel empty inside!": Is this really how Maddie feels? Or is David right--that she just won't let herself be happy?
I thought that was harsh - and ironic - baby you're far from being empty inside - there be a little baby Addison in there :-) Empty= numb, no feelings, miserable...hmmmm - what's missing is just her ability to let go and be happy so I'm with David here. I mean, from Maddie's side, she is thinking that she needs it to feel like a long-term, steady, reliable, comfortable relationship and she knows that's not necessarily David - so she needs to go away and think but what does that resolve? Better to have all the conversations about her doubts with him - over dinner, in the office, at the movies...just not in Chicago little shiksa!
5. What does David mean when he says, "You won't commit!" What do you think David is looking for from the relationship at this point? Is Maddie afraid to commit to him, or is she afraid that David can't/won't commit...or does her "sadness" have nothing to do with commitment?
I think he means 'commit' to us- being an us and fully throwing herself into 'us'. Which is why it's weird that she is unsure of where they're going - where is this sadness coming from? Goldie? Maybe you can help me here coz I can only understand it from David's point of view here.
6. How do you feel about David's declaration to the staff?
Wow - I know GGC and BW hated it in the commentary as they thought it showed that Dave had had all 'the man' taken out of his sails. GGC created him as a man's man and the character had traveled to a point that did not match his original mould for this guy- talk about characters going off on their own tangents sometimes- you can't always control them, sometimes they control you! However - as a viewer, I must admit it gave me shivers. It was just so terribly vulnerable for him - he was an open book ready to be so disastrously hurt but it did work (even it was only for 5 minutes) as we got to see that shy Maddie who opened the door in SIKF.
7. Dr. Joyce Brothers and Ray Charles: Genius or Gimmick?
Both! I loved both of these moments, especially Ray Charles in David's living room - wonderful! His conscience telling him what he already knew: that he was compromising his essence. Hers? Very funny that it was a sexpert :-).
8. And now for a little speculation...Maddie tells David she loves him in the laundromat. Do you think this is the first time she's said it (not counting the "goodbye grope" speech)? And putting real-life logistics aside, was there anything David could have said or done in this scene to make her stay?
Oooh, I don't know- maybe. It did sound fresh- and given his reaction you may have a point there. Again I feel some fan fic coming on:
Maddie: I do love you David.
David: I love you Maddie.
Maddie: What are we gonna do?
David: What we've always done Maddie...
Maddie: Oh great, you mean fight? Disagree? Drive each other crazy?
David:...and what lies beneath that? Knowing each other inside out, being able to guess what the other's thinking, being prepared to die for that other person? (His voice breaks slightly) That's called love baby. Come here and dance with me. (They start to slow dance) What could be a better fit than us, here, now, dancing together in this laundromat?
Maddie: It does feel simple when you put it that way.
David: Maddie, just let yourself be happy. The real tragedy is if you never really got to truly know the man inside here (he pointed at his chest, then picked up her hand and gently placed it over his heart). This? This is yours, all yours.
Okay I'll stop now before it turns into a bad romantic comedy starring Adam Sandler he he.
9. Overall, are David and Maddie's actions and reactions in this episode true to their characters as we have come to know them in Seasons 1-3?
That's a toughie - in some ways yes but I can't help feeling that Maddie fails to notice how much they've been through together, how well they know each other and that they had become best friends- she was dating her best friend and he happens to be drop dead gorgeous - what's the problem Maddie?
10. Just for fun (and meaning no disrespect to our male colleagues): IMO, David is lookin' pretty fine in this episode. What's your favorite shot of him here?
LOL Think I've already mentioned this he he - towel shot- no debate! Beautiful.
11. And finally...What is the DEAL with the six-minute set piece "David v. the Invisible Prowler"? Prizes will be awarded for any explanation that makes this scene plausible within the context of the episode...
This is the worst part of the episode- it's soooo long man! I guess it just shows us how desperate he is...he will not leave until she comes out- he knows this is it. He's beating himself up/he's the victim!
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Feb 26, 2011 16:33:31 GMT -5
I think he means 'commit' to us- being an us and fully throwing herself into 'us'. Which is why it's weird that she is unsure of where they're going - where is this sadness coming from? Goldie? Maybe you can help me here coz I can only understand it from David's point of view here. Oh dear, first of all thank you very much for asking my opinion, I am really flattered I am not a Maddie Hayes expert ( I think no one is And I really love them both, but Maddie... she is...she is.... I just understand her, we just think alike on many, many, many points So, what concerns the "commitment" issue... In my opinion, her interpretation of this word, of this notion in general is different on different stages of theit relationships. And it obviously differs from how David understands commitment. I think for David commitment is (as you've said) just "being an us" (boy, you really understand the guy ). It doesn't matter for him what, where, when they do, the main thing - they do it together! Maddie sees it in a different light. Obviously. For her spending 24 hours a day in the bedroom is not being an us, it has nothing to do with the commitment, it has something to do with lust. And although she is pleased with their "bedroom adventures" and she is physically attracted to him the same he is attracted to her - nevertheless she doesn't want him to be just her physical attraction, she doesn't want their relations to be limited to bedroom relationships only, he means for her more than that - he is her everything! I don't say she has doubts about his feelings to her. No. She does know he loves her. She is just afraid that she loves him more than he loves her. And I know I've told it at least 100 times, but the lady is longing to hear the 3 magical words. And they are really magical as we will see it latter. Do you remember the scene, when he declares his love to her in front of the whole world? Remember her reaction? Her face? Her angelic smile? The lady was enjoying every word, she was glowing with happiness! Her mood, her attitude have changed immediately, now she definitely has seen them as an us! And she is ready to commit, she accepts his invitation on a date! And everything would be just fine if that date would not become a disaster... Oh that damn laundry... What I'm trying to say is that all she wants for this moment is hearing the words. To know that he is with her because he loves her and it has nothing to do with the bedroom. Here I can hear our Sandra saying: "But his actions speak louder than words!" Yes they do. But some of them also do not. Remember her question: "Are you gonna go there and tell everybody that we sleep together?" And his answer is a facial expression saying "why not". Admit it, it is not the answer she is waiting for. I think she wants him to say something like: "no, I'm gonna go there and I'm gonna tell them that I l ove you." I know he meant to tell this, but he didn't. And then he actually did and it worked like a charm, didn't it? So this is basically my point of view, I don't know whether it makes sense, because it is really not easy to understand this couple, it is never easy with these two. But we do love them that way, don't we? p.s. btw Nancy, you've did a great job answering all these questions, was a pleasure to read! Thank you.
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Post by bluemoonshampoo on Feb 26, 2011 16:45:10 GMT -5
Ar thank you Goldie - I love your suggestions here. So, from Maddie's point of view, she is still worried that she loves him more than he loves her? She thinks he is more than satisfied with their relationship revolving around the bed, and isn't concerned with the grand scheme? Hmmm. Gosh you can see why they're at logger-heads huh? I mean David would see the physical stuff just being a natural outcome of how he feels about her- to him- the more they sleep together, the stronger he feels about her! Darn it- no wonder they never resolved anything! :-) xxx
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Post by sandra on Feb 26, 2011 17:12:22 GMT -5
Here I can hear our Sandra saying: "But his actions speak louder than words!" Yes they do. But some of them also do not. Remember her question: "Are you gonna go there and tell everybody that we sleep together?" And his answer is a facial expression saying "why not". Admit it, it is not the answer she is waiting for. I think she wants him to say something like: "no, I'm gonna go there and I'm gonna tell them that I l ove you." Well, I think had she asked that question in other words, maybe his reaction would be different. By deliberately using the words sleep together, and that in a very disdainful tone, she was the one who reduced their "us" to a merely physical thing. And that after having declared them as a bad habit, even worse. I don't know how any of you would react, being called a bad habit - I know I would have been very, very hurt by these words. This is again a classic case of not encouraging him. I think.
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Feb 26, 2011 17:22:36 GMT -5
Ar thank you Goldie - I love your suggestions here. So, from Maddie's point of view, she is still worried that she loves him more than he loves her? She thinks he is more than satisfied with their relationship revolving around the bed, and isn't concerned with the grand scheme? Hmmm. Gosh you can see why they're at logger-heads huh? I mean David would see the physical stuff just being a natural outcome of how he feels about her- to him- the more they sleep together, the stronger he feels about her! Darn it- no wonder they never resolved anything! :-) xxx Yep, that's what I think. But again it is not that I blame David for all the mess, Maddie did make her contribution too. They are both guilty, it is just that David is a little more guilty than she is. But I also know that he never meant to hurt her and the fact he didn't tell her about his feelings - well he didn't do that on purpose, to make her mad or something. He just thought it was right for the moment. Boy, these two... now you know why I do love fanfic sooooo much! ;D xxx
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Feb 26, 2011 17:39:25 GMT -5
Well, I think had she asked that question in other words, maybe his reaction would be different. Oh c'mon girl! don't tell me you never asked guys provocative questions just to prove how they feel about you? You ask a question and insert a certain word into it, the word which is supposed to be corected, or altered IF he cares about you? I bet you did! I know I did. I still do. She asked it that way on purpose! She didn't call him a bad habit, she was actually referring to that what they were doing all the time - namely them sleeping together. But agree, it hurts, especially taking into account that it is not true, as she does enjoy it ;D Actually it is one of her best habits ;D ;D Sandra, so glad you've joined the discussion
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Post by sandra on Feb 26, 2011 17:54:44 GMT -5
Well, I think had she asked that question in other words, maybe his reaction would be different. Oh c'mon girl! don't tell me you never asked guys provocative questions just to prove how they feel about you? You ask a question and insert a certain word into it, the word which is supposed to be corected, or altered IF he cares about you? I bet you did! I know I did. I still do. She asked it that way on purpose! True, I did too, but I still think that in such case you have to deliver that question in another way, not sounding so bitter and hurtful as she did. And considering her earlier remark about the bad habit... true, she didn't call him a bad habit. She said we're a bad habit. And I still say: that was hurtful and not appropriate to encourage him to express his feelings. But I appreciate very much you show also some understanding for David's point of view and for his feelings.
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Post by bluemoonshampoo on Sept 14, 2011 15:02:55 GMT -5
Oh I just watched this one again and now have a different answer to the question about the dream sequence: what struck me this time around was the symbolic significance at the end of the dream sequence- when Ralph says he see the relationship as driving a bus forwards. I guess because it's her dream - this shows us that she is overwhelmed by David's fierce determination to move the relationship forwards through his utter devotion to her. It lets us know that she felt like a passenger and that the two of them should have been moving forward at the same pace... he was slightly ahead of her because he couldn't see why they shouldn't be together and she feels like she needed time to catch up; hence the breathing space in Chicago. It's a shame she couldn't just enjoy the feelings but then I guess that's Maddie, she has to think and be sure; to feel it and deal with it her own way. The fact that she envisages him as the driver also suggests that she trusts him and feels safe but she's just not ready to just see what happens.
It is interesting to note that she once again dreams of a vehicle when she returns to LA - only this time she is driving a larger vehicle but doesn't know what to do - her behind the wheel results in this train crashing into all of the people she cares about - so she's aware that she's going to cause pain.
Also interesting that David takes his frustrations out on the car as if it's their relationship to express his anger and hurt...
Think Glenn just liked vehicle metaphors? :-)
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Sept 14, 2011 16:15:30 GMT -5
Oh Nancy, what a great analysis! I've never been good at interpreting dreams, but what always caught my attention is the way they both were dressed in her dream and their look in general. Maddie looked like one of those housewives, who had lost their glamour being completely buried in their daily routine. And David...well he looked very weird, with that awful belly... I always thought that she was afraid that their relationships would change them, would turn them into one of those ordinary couples. I never paid much attention to the bus...but now after you've mentioned this - wow I see it! I guess you are right. I wish she told David about that nightmare when he asked her...
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Post by bluemoonshampoo on Sept 16, 2011 13:34:47 GMT -5
Ditto Goldie - I hadn't thought about why exactly Glenn chose the Honeymooners as the dream - that's interesting that you say they're what she's afraid they'll become if they stay together. Yes I wish she's told David about her dream and driving the bus - but then she never was one for talking it out... sigh...
ps how much do you adore their love confessions to each other in this one? It's the only time we hear them both say it in one scene.
pps Love your new avi Gold x
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