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Post by lin212 on Mar 3, 2009 22:28:43 GMT -5
G'night, gray. I'm heading out too. Til tomorrow -
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Post by jpen on Mar 3, 2009 22:40:12 GMT -5
Hey, Gray--thanks for your "unflinchingly insightful" analysis, and for the Great Pregnancy Q! And lin--thanks to you for all the terrific input and output! Have a great night, both of you!
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Post by sinceifell4u on Mar 3, 2009 22:52:49 GMT -5
Didya notice that jpen is now a 2nd level member. Woo Hoo! Good call, gray. Hip Hip Hooray, Jen!! YaaaaaaY!
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Post by rose35 on Mar 3, 2009 23:22:26 GMT -5
12. Maddie chooses not to confront David about Tess in the scene in the airplane. Does this mark a change in Maddie?I think it relates to what she says in the hotel room: MADDIE'S SPEECHI mean, I understand…that there are things we’ll never talk about. There should be things…pieces…pockets of our lives that are private. I…I mean, I certainly…have plenty of things I’ve never talked to you about. She realizes that, for whatever reasons, David decided to keep this thing, this piece, this pocket, private. And she respected that. There was nothing to be gained by confronting him. She knew the truth, and that was good enough for her. Great answer Graycav! I agree with you on that! *And yes i love the new avatar too! This is definitely one of the things i think we all look forward to during our discussions is seeing your new great great avatars
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Post by rose35 on Mar 3, 2009 23:28:40 GMT -5
2. As the episode opens, we are treated to a variation on the theme of “David Goes on a Bender.” Another significant “relationship” episode, “Witness to the Execution,” also starts with David in a hungover state, and of course there are many other moments in the series when David is “overserved.” (For a breakdown of these moments, see davidandmaddie.com/bar.htm) Do you see any significance to this choice for this episode?Well, there is no “reason” for the inebriation. What is his motivation? Was he ticked at Maddie? Did he lose a bet? Did his cat die? Nothing mentioned, so it just looked like Dave wanted to go on a bender. The big issue I have here is that he went on a liquor fueled joyride when he damn well knew that they needed those pictures delivered the next morning for a PAYING client. Damned unprofessional and I thought by this point he was beyond that. You are right Graycav, you do think this far into the series that David has grew out of his oh i'm hung over at work phase. Granted i think alot of people do go out and drink and really enjoy themselves when they are away from work, which is probably on the weekends where you dont have to worry about reporting to work the very next day so you have time to recover, but David here obviously had to go to work the next day and well he sure didnt take that into consideration when there was a big case being worked on so our dear Maddie sure has good reason to be MAD as heck at him.
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Post by rose35 on Mar 3, 2009 23:35:08 GMT -5
1. We know that baring his soul is not David's strong suit and spontaneity is not Maddie's. The fact that both travel into uncharted territory is revealing. What does it tell us about their relationship at this point? David and Maddie traveling uncharted territory reveals subconsciously, they bring out the uncommon facets of each others personality. David and Maddie have a desire to be there for each other, a desire to be with each other. Although they can't admit it, not even to themselves, they're like magnets...forever clinging to the other. The desire to remedy each others issues, to show support to one another shows me their relationship is severely underestimated in their own eyes...yet we all can see it! Albeit, they don't own up to being a couple, David and Maddie present themselves as such through their constant companionship outside of the office. Great answer SINCE! I think with each episode the storyline takes us another step furthering M/D personal relationship oustside the office. They move forward by their cases alot of the times where the stories of their clients seem to almost always hit home in some way but when it's an episode that revolves around D or M personal life they take the biggest steps forward in furthering their relationship i think and grow closer to each other each time.
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Post by rose35 on Mar 3, 2009 23:38:28 GMT -5
Hey all! I just wanted to thank our great question makers! WOW all these questions to be asked for just one episode of a tv show is really cool huh? It shows that these episodes are just full of layers of stuff to discuss!
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 3, 2009 23:39:33 GMT -5
I am frothing over all of the great questions!! May not answer all of them tonight, but here is a start for me.
1. We know that baring his soul is not David's strong suit and spontaneity is not Maddie's. The fact that both travel into uncharted territory is revealing. What does it tell us about their relationship at this point?
Their relationship up to this point has been an on going dance as it were.....2 steps forward, one step backward for the most part. But, in this episode, they actually take a few steps forward together.
Maddie flying off to NY after her dream simply reinforces what all of us have known.....she does care for David. I don't think she really realized it until she got to his hotel and had to figure out what to say to him without revealing too much of what she feels for him. God forbid should she be the first to admit it!! ;D
David revealing something to Maddie that was obviously very painful for him to tell was a first. Baring his soul may not be his strong suit, but when the moment is there he certainly seemed very capable and willing to share it with Maddie.
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 3, 2009 23:46:39 GMT -5
2. As the episode opens, we are treated to a variation on the theme of “David Goes on a Bender.” Another significant “relationship” episode, “Witness to the Execution,” also starts with David in a hungover state, and of course there are many other moments in the series when David is “overserved.” (For a breakdown of these moments, see davidandmaddie.com/bar.htm) Do you see any significance to this choice for this episode? I go along with what most have said on this one. We are shown again a trait of David's that bugs the heck out of Maddie....irresponsibility. But then, we are shown, and MAddie as well, that he actually is very capable of being a dependable person when he want to be, i.e., marrying Tess because she was pregnant. Did he love her? Maybe, but it seems to be portrayed more as his responsible duty to marry her.
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 3, 2009 23:48:31 GMT -5
Graycav!!!! I KNEW IT!!! .....great avatar!! ;D
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Post by marple on Mar 4, 2009 3:48:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the great start, Jpen, lin and Graycav! This is my most favorite episode all the time. Because I feel this epi has all of it that is "David and Maddie". I agree with Jpen, this is really BIG!
1. We know that baring his soul is not David's strong suit and spontaneity is not Maddie's. The fact that both travel into uncharted territory is revealing. What does it tell us about their relationship at this point?
I think David is glad to find Maddie in his hotel room, (who isnft, if the woman you love suddenly shows up flying long distance in the middle of the night?), but at the same time he is confused. After listening to her explanation, he feels sorry for her and that he should more trust her and allow her to see his past. I think David takes a large step toward Maddie. But he is still defending himself from revealing that he is not completely over it. So he tells Maddie gShe is not important anywayh. How sweet! And I suppose that he thinks this is the best way for both at this point.
Maddie is shocked by the fact she hasnft fully known David and afraid of his ex-wifefs existence, she canft stop herself thinking of David and his former marriage, and spontaneously flies to NY. I think this action and all the body language she has (embarrassed, disappointed looks and sighs) reveal how she loves David. Her insecurity, sensibilities and desire are all there. (I really love her for it!) I agree that she is not sure about it and not dealing with it. But she does much care about his feelings. She shows it on the plane home, not bringing up what she found out, but asking him if he wants half the blanket. Very sweet.
However, I have one question about the plane scene.
Maddie: If I can borrow half a shoulder? David : Only for about the next 20 or 30 years. Then I'm gonna need it back. And then the camera focuses Maddie's strange feeling or thinking look. What does this part mean? I can't still find the answer, if there is the particular meaning or not...
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Post by marple on Mar 4, 2009 4:16:25 GMT -5
2. "David on a Bender" - significance in this episode: Quote from lin The "bender" incidents highlight David's irresponsibility. This is significant in this episode because it is in direct contrast to the portrait of a young David who takes responsibility for his actions and marries Tess. I immediately think of David's line, "I can be the picture of dependability if I want". His words are a foreshadowing of the story he tells Maddie later on in the episode. I totally agree! Davidfs responsibility is one of the subjects of this episode. And how and what does Maddie learn about it?
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Post by marple on Mar 4, 2009 4:24:04 GMT -5
4. This question relates to the dream/dance sequence. At this point, Maddie does not know the details of David's relationship with his ex-wife, yet in her dream, she imagines the ex as the Bad guy.EIt's interesting that she doesn't blame David for the break-up. What does this tell us about Maddie's opinion of David? Speaking of the dream sequence, I think Maddiefs dream: that fascinating dance scene and also the song beautifully tell the depth of the characters.
In her dream Maddie imagines Davidfs wife is so sexy and has the power to attract him to the marriage (and I felt the same way first), but I now realize it is the reflection of her own deep feelings for him. Itfs interesting that Maddie appears at that Bar and tries to seduce David, this is supposed to be the last thing she would try to do. David always affects Maddie to see things that she hasnft recognized yet, and I think her sexy side is included, maybe subconsciously. But I guess that she is not used to open it and feels fear for its intensity. David must be the first guy who makes her feel this way. The dream tells her that she would go to work on David trying to take the place of his wife. She canft deal with these feelings, and is being threatened by his ex-wife. I also think Maddie instinctively knows David is a caring man, not the man who first breaks up their marriage.
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Post by marple on Mar 4, 2009 4:55:02 GMT -5
I have transcribed the lyrics of "Big Man on Mulberry Street". Because I remember Diane's comment somewhere on the board and that says the words of the song are about David or something like that. And I totally agree!!! This is one of the great character development!
Why can't I lay low Why can't I say what I mean Why don't I stay home And get myself into some boring routine
Why can't I calm down Why is it always a fight I can't get unwound Why do I throw myself into the night
I'm on the outside I don't fit into the groove Now I ain't a bad guy So tell me what am I trying to prove
Why can't I cool out Why don't I button my lip Why do I lash out Why is it I always shoot from the hip
I cruise for Houston to Canal street A misfit and a rebel I see the winos talking to themselves And I can understand Why is it everytime I go out I always seem to get in trouble I guess I made an impression on somebody North of Hester and south of Grand
And so in my small way I'm a big man on Mulberry street I don't mean all day Only at night when I'm light on my feet
What else have I got That I'd be trying to hide Maybe a blind spot I haven't seen from the sensitive side
But you know in my own heart I'm a big man on Mulberry street I play the whole part I leave a big tip with every receipt
I'm so romantic I'm such a passionate man Sometimes I panic What if nobody finds out who I am
I think this song is really brilliant in this episode!
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Post by marple on Mar 4, 2009 6:01:07 GMT -5
11. In the hotel argument, Maddie shouts, gI was looking forward to this funeral!h I really love Maddie shouts this, and then Davidfs expression on his face. I admit I laugh loudly every time I watch this scene. It seems to almost become another serious scene, but it doesnft. I think that such clever dialogue is the reason why Moonlighting has become an excellent comedy. Really great!
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