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Post by beesnbears on Feb 11, 2009 22:53:40 GMT -5
Hi Gorky!!
I like the control stuff too! Boy, it really shows David knows exactly what eats Maddie the most, doesn't it?! I would have liked to have heard him say it to Maddie!!
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Post by jpen on Feb 11, 2009 22:57:33 GMT -5
Wish there was deleted scenes from a LE script showing M/D got back together LOL Ok i'm a dreamer what can i say! Oh, Rose, wouldn't that be amazing?? I can just see it...unearthed in the bowels of Picturemaker Productions (or wherever)...the "Lost Script"!! ;D
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Post by jpen on Feb 11, 2009 23:04:02 GMT -5
S And this-- She's just got this thing about control. If she's not IN control, she loses control, and she has problems with me because I won't give it to her. But I gave it to her when she left, and now, finally...I'm taking it back.--even if it was said somewhere else in the course of season four, would've gone a long way towards making Maddie's actions seem a bit less horrible. Plus, it's always great when David offers such amazing insights--it shows that he really has been paying attention. Hey, gorky, great point. It's actually nice to have the writers validate what we, with all our analyzin' and scrutinizin', have felt about Maddie, but which goes unsaid throughout the series.
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Post by beesnbears on Feb 11, 2009 23:05:17 GMT -5
Wish there was deleted scenes from a LE script showing M/D got back together LOL Ok i'm a dreamer what can i say! rose
LOL!! Yes, rose. I think we have all dreamed that a zillion times, you think!!?? .........Diane, you haven't been holding out on us have you?!?!?! ;D
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Post by beesnbears on Feb 11, 2009 23:06:32 GMT -5
Jpen, I SWEAR I am not looking at your paper!! ;D
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gorky
1st Level
Posts: 72
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Post by gorky on Feb 11, 2009 23:10:15 GMT -5
Me too, bees--she probably wouldn't have taken an analysis like that so well, eh? And--since I'm all about making meaningless connections where probably there are none--here's something that my brain just concocted: In "A Trip to the Moon", in that big office blow-up (which I love), David accuses Maddie, saying that she "never gave (herself) to this thing"; she then tells him, "If I gave any more of myself to this thing, I'd be inside-out." Point is: David's line, in the FKL script, about Maddie being in control could refer to being in control of the situation with the baby and David; but it could also be a reference to the fact that Maddie isn't able to control herself, emotionally, around David. After IAC...M, I'm sure Maddie did give herself to the relationship; I believe she gave all of her heart to it. But this passion--this inability to keep her emotions reigned in--also scared her. David loosened Maddie's tight grip on her emotions, and like hell he'd want to give that control back to her--after all, he always wanted her to just feel, not think. Am I making any sense? (If I'm not, then I blame it on the near-ungodly hour in my neck o' the woods...
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Post by jpen on Feb 11, 2009 23:10:44 GMT -5
Jpen, I SWEAR I am not looking at your paper!! ;D Nah, I love it--we've got some "essed" psychic connection!
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Post by rose35 on Feb 11, 2009 23:13:09 GMT -5
5. In a previous episode, Mrs. Hayes described Maddie as her father's daughter. What in the way that Mr. Hayes handled this situation reminded you of Maddie?
Everything reminds you of Maddie,she is so her fathers daughter. His assumptions at what kinda guy David is was just like Maddie, Maddie sees things one way and so does her father. They are both hard working people,so we know Maddie gets that from her father. When pushed in a corner so to speak Maddie ran from David and well Mr hayes turned his back on David while he was talking to him a few times. The Ole Hayes backside!
6. Does David's commitment change or grow throughout the episode after his encounter with Mr. Hayes?
Well David went therough alot of emotions in this episode, he was angry, sad, in denial, he was giving up on the business, himself, Maddie too. but once Mr hayes really listened to him and then mr hayes had given him that talk after and the money well he really felt like a new man, he was going to take care of their business and prepare to be a good father for this baby so he would be all ready once Maddie came home. kinda like he got a new lease on life. The more we go over all this amazing stuff the more it makes me so mad that all this took place and then Maddie comes home married to Walter and then she lost the baby and then welll we all know what happened after all that.
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Post by jpen on Feb 11, 2009 23:14:34 GMT -5
Me too, bees--she probably wouldn't have taken an analysis like that so well, eh? And--since I'm all about making meaningless connections where probably there are none--here's something that my brain just concocted: In "A Trip to the Moon", in that big office blow-up (which I love), David accuses Maddie, saying that she "never gave (herself) to this thing"; she then tells him, "If I gave any more or myself to this thing, I'd be inside-out." Point is: David's line, in the FKL script, about Maddie being in control could refer to being in control of the situation with the baby and David; but it could also be a reference to the fact that Maddie isn't able to control herself, emotionally, around David. After IAC...M, I'm sure Maddie did give herself to the relationship; I believe she gave all of her heart to it. But this passion--this inability to keep her emotions reigned in--also scared her. David took away Maddie's control of her emotions, and like hell he'd want to give them back to her--after all, he always wanted her to just feel, not think. Am I making any sense? (If I'm not, then I blame it on the near-ungodly hour in my neck o' the woods... Yes, you are absolutely making sense, and I think the connection is valid. The last time David saw her, in the laundromat, she went on about how she couldn't handle what she felt were the two extremes in their relationship, that she needed a break from him "for her mental health"...she doesn't say, "You make me feel so much that it scares me," but it's certainly implied, and David is smart enough to read between the lines.
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Post by beesnbears on Feb 11, 2009 23:15:00 GMT -5
This version didn't give us Dave's heart rendering speech, which would be a great loss. Also, this had a "too easy" resolution to the firm's financial difficulties. The deal made between David and Mr. Hayes made it much more personal and put more cement on the bond between the two men. They now were linked all the way around...family and financially.I agree Gray. Something about David and Mr. Hayes in this moment really should not have been traded for a "lighter" scene. They have only seen each other twice now and look how much they are on the same page at the end. Should have been father-in-law and son-in-law.......eventually anyway.
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Post by rose35 on Feb 11, 2009 23:19:09 GMT -5
Am I making any sense? (If I'm not, then I blame it on the near-ungodly hour in my neck o' the woods... ) « Last Edit: Today at 10:12pm by gorky » LOL You made a ton of sense Gorky! yeah i know about the time thing too ,we just cant get enough of this place can we? Once my kids fall asleep i'm like raring to go. Maddie wanted to be in control of everything: her business life and her personal life.
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Post by beesnbears on Feb 11, 2009 23:24:02 GMT -5
Gorky, you nailed it!! And then jpen nailed it again! You are making lots of sense. Maddie is so afraid that she would feel something that David envokes she flees!!
Maddie needs to stay in therapy!!! I think we all would make great therapists for her!! ;D
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Post by jpen on Feb 11, 2009 23:51:59 GMT -5
This was so fun, as always...Diane, thanks for sharing the script differences, and for the "twofer"--essing on Tuesday AND Wednesday? Uh-oh, I could get used to this...
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Post by rose35 on Feb 12, 2009 0:00:34 GMT -5
This was so fun, as always...Diane, thanks for sharing the script differences, and for the "twofer"--essing on Tuesday AND Wednesday? Uh-oh, I could get used to this... Ahh JPEN you are not the only one who enjoyed this "TWOFER!" LOL Some episodes just deserve more time spent on them dont they?
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Post by diane on Feb 12, 2009 7:50:59 GMT -5
I never got a chance to throw my two cents in.......
I don't like either of the alternatives.
The first one leaves out the two most wonderful parts of the episode -- David's declaration, and the make-up with Agnes. Those are kind of the heart of the episode to me.
I think if when David marched onto the plane, his intent was to go to Chicago and fix things with Maddie, it could have made for a very different season 4. But him saying "without me" makes it a little weird. I don't see him as ever being able to break it off, so I'm not quite sure what he was doing going to Chicago.
In the second scenario, the tone was just too weird. I didn't like the "comedy", it almost lent an irreverant tone to the whole thing. I didn't like the passenger participation, and I especially didn't like some of David's flippant responses -- the bath reference just makes me cringe!
But as just about everybody says...I love the control section, and I surely wish David had had that conversation with Maddie herself. (Not trying to self promote, but I actually came back to this very subject in the season 7 finale of Virtual.)
But I still have to vote for the David we saw pouring his heart out. I t has been reported that Bruce did a lot of ad-libing in that scene. When you see the framework of the script....not so much. But if he was the source of the words and phrases that amde it to the scene, I am most grateful........."Mr. Hayes, I would give up my life for her."....much more powerful than dirty bathwater!
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