|
Post by sinceifell4u on Apr 29, 2009 13:47:34 GMT -5
Boy, sorry I had to bail so abruptly last night folks, but couldn't be helped. Anyhow, it looks like we came up with a bunch of great posts after my departure. Wonderful discussion of a very, VERY difficult episode. You know, for two weeks now we have reviewed season opening episodes, and in both cases we have seen fillers and stretched scenes to make time requirements. I don't know about you, but I remember feeling cheated by this lack of professionalism on the part of the production team. I can understand those mid-season shows where they were trying to get the episode out on a shorter time schedule, but hey, this one (and ATTTM) had MONTHS to prepare. The least the fans should expect is a season opener free of extraneous celluloid. Is 48 minutes of scrap free dialog too much to ask for? Maybe I'm being too hard here, but even as evidenced by the commentary of both of the episodes referenced, there was not a 100% effort being put into these shows, (not counting the fine acting jobs). Yup Gray, you called it...you're not being hard at all...your rant is justified~ PS...Great avatar, so wrapped up in the sorrow, I almost missed the fun...thanks for the laugh, I needed it~
|
|
|
Post by lin212 on Apr 29, 2009 18:26:27 GMT -5
I may have said this already, but the fact that we even have to ask this question is one of the most frustrating parts of the episode for me. Back in '88, we waited 8 1/2 MONTHS between "Flesh" and this episode. I really think the loyal viewers deserved some indication as to how things were between Maddie and David...some definition of their relationship and what transpired in ML-world during the long, long hiatus. IMO, it could've been so easily done in concert with some funny pregnancy stuff, or even a few lines about Lamaze, or their living situation. A kiss, even. There could still have been plenty of juggling and uncertainty--they never really got a chance to negotiate their relationship in S4, and could've spent S5 doing just that. Argh. I gotta stop this. It's makin' me nuts! So true, jen. Many things could have been done in Season 5 that would have been funny, exasperating as only D/M could be, romantic - all those things, but still true to the characters that we know. It could have been wonderful!
|
|
|
Post by lin212 on Apr 29, 2009 18:44:19 GMT -5
4.What is your take on the Nanny For Hire business? Do you feel that this was out of character for David at this point in the show?I think it was a horrendously bad idea. I think, every once in a while, the writers would just say...."hey, we need a scene to show that David is like his old self"......almost as a macho reminder. But, at the beginning of season 5, he isn't the old David. He has been to hell and back...though not so far as he is going to go. The David of this time period would have been more respectful of Maddie's feelings, and quite frankly, not stupid enough to try this ploy. In retrospect, after such a long time away from the end of season 4, how stupid were the writers, to make this the first scene in the new season that Maddie and David shared? Well said, diane. The old David as we first knew him, no longer exists. His relationship with Maddie has changed him into a more responsible, committed adult looking forward to fatherhood and a place in Maddie's life. It didn't make sense to try and erase the last year by having David act goofy.
|
|
|
Post by diane on Apr 30, 2009 8:43:53 GMT -5
4.What is your take on the Nanny For Hire business? Do you feel that this was out of character for David at this point in the show?I think it was a horrendously bad idea. I think, every once in a while, the writers would just say...."hey, we need a scene to show that David is like his old self"......almost as a macho reminder. But, at the beginning of season 5, he isn't the old David. He has been to hell and back...though not so far as he is going to go. The David of this time period would have been more respectful of Maddie's feelings, and quite frankly, not stupid enough to try this ploy. In retrospect, after such a long time away from the end of season 4, how stupid were the writers, to make this the first scene in the new season that Maddie and David shared? Well said, diane. The old David as we first knew him, no longer exists. His relationship with Maddie has changed him into a more responsible, committed adult looking forward to fatherhood and a place in Maddie's life. It didn't make sense to try and erase the last year by having David act goofy. There you go, Lin! A signature for David -- "Still fun, no longer goofy!"
|
|
|
Post by jpen on Apr 30, 2009 9:02:29 GMT -5
Just wanted to say thanks to you all for a very cleansing and thought-provoking discussion...when I have watched this episode in the past, I have always just had a mental mini-tantrum; but having to think through the questions, and reading others' insightful responses, has helped me exorcise some demons, as it were.
I knew this board would be fun...but I wasn't expecting it to be so therapeutic! ;D
|
|
|
Post by diane on Apr 30, 2009 11:05:46 GMT -5
I agree with Jen.....what a great discussion!
This episode has lots of issues that pull at your very soul, so it is logical that emotions run high! So glad we could help each other to the other side!
Now, take a breath, remember it's a TV show, and lets pick a FUN episode for next week!
|
|
|
Post by beesnbears on Apr 30, 2009 13:50:11 GMT -5
I know I am the one who has pushed to do this one, so thanks everybody!! This "thing" we have can drive you nuts if you let it!! ;D I agree, it's time for some FUN!!
|
|
|
Post by manitobadesigner on Apr 30, 2009 17:17:13 GMT -5
OK, I'm late to the party, but I have to stand up and cheer at everyone's posts - here's some of my faves: Totally agree, lin. This scene just bugs me...David has moved so far beyond "peeping Dave" by Season 4. It felt to me like they were stretching for a joke, without really considering whether it was true to the character or not.
OK, I think lin is (as usual right-on that the "Creator" is Glenn
Lots of good and bad in the world but could it be the bad was shown and how it made Baby Hayes so upset that he didnt want to come out in the world, was it like a set up for the audience cause something bad was coming in the way of the loss of the baby?
b) The musical number to me was a grand exit, a celebration of moving on to new things and new experiences. I believe it was a message to his writing staff and actors, it was Glenn's good bye.
This is to me the cruelest cut of all. I have heard all the explanations about why this is supposed to lift everybody's spirits -- I don't buy it. A little comedy and a soft shoe is not going to cut it here for me. They lost a baby.....an almost full term baby...there was nothing to sing about!Thanks jpen, lin, rose sinceifell4u, & diane for these magical nuggets of truth.
|
|
|
Post by lin212 on Apr 30, 2009 17:56:06 GMT -5
Thanks for jumping in, manitobadesigner. Hope you can make it next week when we are "essing" together.
|
|
|
Post by manitobadesigner on Apr 30, 2009 18:00:27 GMT -5
Thanks for jumping in, manitobadesigner. Hope you can make it next week when we are "essing" together. Thanks lin, for sure! I can never get enough essed! (ness?) ;D
|
|
myfairdavid
2nd Level
"I hate you, David Addison." ~ Maddie "I know. I hate you, too, Maddie Hayes." ~ David
Posts: 473
|
Post by myfairdavid on Feb 17, 2011 17:24:53 GMT -5
[quote author=rose35
And i think i said it before above ,i always believed that David was the father, he had to be. I was so happy to have this confirmed though, and i do wish it was confirmed on screen for M/D, maybe it wasnt done becuase the writers figured they took out the baby issiue so what was the sense of dwelling on it, because the next episode didnt do really much at all in the way of 2 people greiving for the loss of their child who is never ever mentioned again, i understand it couldnt be all they should have talked about for the rest of the series but it should have been brought up at a few other important times during season 5 and not even a mention of Maddies parents was crazy! ARGHHHH [/quote][/b]
So much word. I've watched this epi over and over again to get clues on all of this. But, it is as simple as Jerome says, "David's the father." For awhile, we didn't know so at least this was confirmed now. Only problem for me is not letting M&D know that the baby is really theirs.
You can see the grief from both of them (shortly) in the next epi, however, I agree with Rose35. Once that epi was over, no mention of the baby EVER throughout the rest of the season. Weird. I mean, she carried this baby almost the whole 9 months, you would think that at least Maddie would be thinking about that now and then. In David's case, he didn't really know he was the father so I guess that allows him to have some grief, but not like a father who KNOWS that HIS child has been lost. We see that he is upset and looks like he recovers from that throughout the season. It would have all been different if he knew the baby was his. JMO. My main point to my rambling is I have two problems:
1. Paternity is not revealed to the characters, and 2. They don't address the issue any more after the "elevator scene" in Yuk.
|
|
|
Post by bluemoonshampoo on Mar 21, 2011 8:17:45 GMT -5
I haven't been brave enough to start re-watching series 5 and probably won't watch all of them...but I did read through the comments on here to see if I could be courageous enough to dive into these shark infested waters! Such insight and heartfelt thoughts...at the end of it all, something became really clear to me! Someone said it was GGC's swan song right? Do you think that he deliberately took himself, the baby and the essence of the show with him when he jumped through that loop hole? Sad thought :-(
|
|
|
Post by bluemoonshampoo on Mar 21, 2011 8:21:03 GMT -5
PS on a positive note- I will always remain over the moon at my shout out at the start of this ep! I think I mentioned it on the Moonlighting everyday stuff thread - that my little Moonlighting possy at school consisted of myself (Nancy), Cathy and Dawn. So when David and Agnes said hi to us all at the start, I nearly fell out of my chair. I had to watch whole episode again to know what was going on as I was so made-up with the mentioning of our names lol. Rest assured that it was only a coincidence but what a great one...
|
|
|
Post by bluemoonshampoo on Mar 23, 2011 10:54:54 GMT -5
PPS On an even more positive note, I made a list of the bits of this episode that I did like: - I actually quite liked the opening with the dance number as I thought it was so full of hope when they sang of making 16 new episodes with guts and heart- an no re-runs! -Scantily clad Davids are always welcome - even if they are in a nappy (and this would have been funny if Addison Jr had survived) -The way Jerome echoed what we felt, made me feel like they knew what the audience were thinking, and may deliver e.g. when he says 'He had an extraordinary passion for your mother', 'they'll be fine as parents I've seen the future episodes' and 'deep down they really do care' -They did argue over each other - even it did seem a little forced and slow -Cute when they make up on the couch- lots of caring between them -Paper cup fight at the OK Water Cooler was ace -Agnes talking Bert round to the fact that he'd make a great dad and then calling him a 'jerk' -How happy D and M look when they're dancing
That's it- that's all I got; a little shorter than my usual postings on re-watches (seasons 1-3).
I feel like the end is almost tagged on - almost like GGC left it open for the season 5 exec to decide...the loop hole he left open? Another theory #sigh#
|
|
myfairdavid
2nd Level
"I hate you, David Addison." ~ Maddie "I know. I hate you, too, Maddie Hayes." ~ David
Posts: 473
|
Post by myfairdavid on Mar 23, 2011 13:24:21 GMT -5
PPS On an even more positive note, I made a list of the bits of this episode that I did like: - I actually quite liked the opening with the dance number as I thought it was so full of hope when they sang of making 16 new episodes with guts and heart- an no re-runs! -Scantily clad Davids are always welcome - even if they are in a nappy (and this would have been funny if Addison Jr had survived) -The way Jerome echoed what we felt, made me feel like they knew what the audience were thinking, and may deliver e.g. when he says 'He had an extraordinary passion for your mother', 'they'll be fine as parents I've seen the future episodes' and 'deep down they really do care' -They did argue over each other - even it did seem a little forced and slow -Cute when they make up on the couch- lots of caring between them -Paper cup fight at the OK Water Cooler was ace -Agnes talking Bert round to the fact that he'd make a great dad and then calling him a 'jerk' -How happy D and M look when they're dancing That's it- that's all I got; a little shorter than my usual postings on re-watches (seasons 1-3). I feel like the end is almost tagged on - almost like GGC left it open for the season 5 exec to decide...the loop hole he left open? Another theory #sigh# Co-signing this post, BMS!!! If I was going to write up a list of things I liked about this episode, these would probably be IT. I would've named all of those. There were some good moments.
|
|