bluemooner
3rd Level
Moonlighting strangers who just met on the way
Posts: 850
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Post by bluemooner on Oct 3, 2008 9:16:48 GMT -5
LOL yes, it sure does, bees. I often wonder the same thing. Actually, I also wonder what would have happened in Blonde on Blonde, if Maddie had been the one to open the door? OMG! that's all I have to say just thinking about it. I think I would have been glued to the tv and jumping up and down. Then again, as it was, I probably was glued to the tv, but maybe screaming instead of jumping. or maybe both. haha
and yes, those two are the most stubborn people ever!
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 3, 2008 18:59:22 GMT -5
I never thought about Maddie coming to the door instead of Sam!!! Hmmm...........that might have changed some things. Or not!
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nazel
1st Level
Posts: 90
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Post by nazel on Oct 5, 2008 7:22:07 GMT -5
Probably not, Maddie would've been a bitch anyway lol
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 6, 2008 20:25:45 GMT -5
Yeah, but she walks bowlegged and you don't mind!! LOL!! ;D
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gorky
1st Level
Posts: 72
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Post by gorky on Jan 29, 2009 16:41:10 GMT -5
So I realize that this topic isn't exactly hopping with activity at the moment, but I just watched "Sam and Dave" today, and, since I'm me, I feel compelled to analyze the poor thing to death. I've always considered this to be the weakest episode of the trilogy ("weakest" being a relative term, because I think the trilogy is pretty flippin' brilliant), but this time I came away from it with some new insights (new for me, at least), so I figured I'd share with anyone who happens upon this thread. This is one of those small bits that I didn't notice my first time through the episode, but when I noticed it this time, I just had a sort of "aha!" moment. Of course Maddie's conflicted; of course she's unsure of her feelings. And, I agree, she doesn't seem to be all that eager to hop into bed with Sam. It's more like she knows Sam is expecting sex--she knows it's what the situation calls for--so she's just taking her medicine, so to speak. And I do think that she craves physical contact, judging by her speech in "Blonde on Blonde"; it's just that she's craving it from a different person. And that's the biggest realization I had, watching the episode this time: Maddie already knows who she really wants to be with. If you consider "It's a Wonderful Job" the last canon episode (since "The Straight Poop" is a clip show, and, IMO, "Poltergeist III--Dipesto Nothing" is just an unfortunate interlude), she's known for quite some time. I mean, she's more or less admitted to herself that she loves David, and she's convinced herself that David loves her (I'm thinking specifically about that scene with Dipesto and Bert, where Maddie says, "You can't treat him like that--you love him... You two love each other, you just don't know it yet."). Really, all she's waiting on is confirmation from David; she wants him to make the first move. Wasn't that what the speech in "Blonde on Blonde" was ultimately about? Wasn't Maddie opening up to David, telling him how desperately she wanted a man (wanted him)? Wasn't the subtext there just, "Tell me you feel the same way--be that guy I can be bad and wonderful with"? Wasn't she trying to make him uncomfortable, trying to force him into admitting that he wanted her just as badly as she wanted him? It's kind of manipulative, in a way--she's toying with him, almost. But I do think that, in her own way, she's trying to let David know that she's ready. She's had these feelings for a while, and now she's ready to fess up. If he feels the same way, that is. Jerome really nailed it in "A Womb With a View": The biggest problem for Maddie and David has always been, "Does he/she love me as much as I love him/her?" I've kind of digressed here, but I'll try to get back to my point... Point: I think it's totally plausible that Maddie's so gung-ho to get back together with Sam simply to see what kind of reaction she'll get from David. She seems almost too happy about the whole thing, the morning after BoB--smiling and bouncing around. And, though she does care about Sam, I think she's laying it on a bit thick, for David's benefit. She wants him to be upset; she wants him to make a move. It's not malicious, really--she just needs to be sure that David loves her, too. I think Maddie definitely knows what David wants to tell her when he crashes her date with Sam--there's this knowing look on her face. She looks almost bubbly, totally happy--purely, sweetly happy--because she thinks he's finally going to confirm her suspicions, tell her, "Maddie, I love you." Of course, that can't happen. Not yet. Another observation: In the beginning of the episode, when Elaine Johnson comes to Blue Moon, and David pulls Maddie out of the office to discuss not taking the case, Maddie makes a pretty telling comment. She says, "Maybe a thing like being faithful isn't that easy to define. Maybe it's not so black-and-white." Because the fact is, Maddie may be "with" Sam, but she feels a greater loyalty to David and his feelings. Faithful to Sam on paper, but faithful to David in her heart and mind. I think that's it for now, gang. If anyone comes across this li'l (or, actually, big and rambling) post, feel free to disagree with anything I've said. Just my two cents is all.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Jan 29, 2009 22:34:16 GMT -5
Gorky, I LOVE IT! There is so much here that is right on point, every thing to me....you picked up some very subtle nuances...I also see them.
Funny, I just watched this episode last night, therefore it is rather fresh in my mind Each instance you speak of in S & D as well as the other episodes like BoB and AWWAV.
Great break down, like you were there or something, lol. You write very eloquently, it's beautiful. Good to meet you and I look forward to your post on other threads.
Blessings~
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gorky
1st Level
Posts: 72
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Post by gorky on Jan 30, 2009 6:30:10 GMT -5
Hi, sinceifell4u! Nice to meet you, too. You're too kind, really--I'm just a big old ramblin' machine, in all honesty. But I'm glad that you understand where I'm coming from--it makes me feel a little less, er, rabidly analytical. And I look forward to seeing you 'round these parts, too. Everyone here is so friendly, so thoughtful; the discussions are great. People like you help keep the atmosphere on these boards so welcoming. Thank you.
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Post by rose35 on Jan 30, 2009 10:59:20 GMT -5
hey gorky! I love to see old threads get new posts! We never tire of that around here. I must say your post was so great! WOW what points yopu picked up on that i really didnt think about and you make all the sense in the world! Love to see these scenes analysed by us 'essed fans! Hope to read more from you! This is the start to a great thing coming at the end of IACM Oh SIGH!
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 30, 2009 11:18:46 GMT -5
Great googly moogly! What an awesome post!! You really can get inside Maddie's head, gorky! I gotta tell you, I'll never be able to do what you just did. I'm more in touch with my masculine side. That's the reason I'm on the same wavelength with Dave... BUT... This won't stop me from telling you: Keep on ramblin', kid! We're ALL analytical folks here! And besides, I think I'm speaking on behalf of this amazing community of ours when I say that...everybody reads everybody else's posts! Including yours, gorky! This is a great place full of jovial, clever, witty, funny people. I never, ever in my entire life felt so unconditionally accepted and welcomed! BTW, have I already told you I love this place? So, don't be shy (and if you are not, please disregard my words )! Write as many posts as you feel compelled to write! We'll always be here to read 'em! Deal? Shake! P.S. I do hope you'll be able to join us for "The Son Also Rises" next Tuesday! IBM
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Post by lin212 on Jan 30, 2009 19:58:04 GMT -5
Great analysis, gorky! I love how you connect IAWJ with BOB. It's true that BOB is the first "real" episode after Maddie throws David down on the desk and wishes him a VERY Merry Christmas. I never thought about that before.
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Post by jpen on Jan 30, 2009 20:44:19 GMT -5
Great analysis, gorky! I love how you connect IAWJ with BOB. It's true that BOB is the first "real" episode after Maddie throws David down on the desk and wishes him a VERY Merry Christmas. I never thought about that before. I concur, gorky--very well thought-through...and Lin--a "VERY Merry Christmas"--LOL!! That continuity break (of the story arc, not the episodes) continues (ha!) to bug me...if Maddie's gonna have that revelation, it should MEAN something!!
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 30, 2009 22:25:28 GMT -5
Hi gorky!! Where have you been on Tuesday nights??!! That was a great post! I have been thinking about it for a while and if you don't mind I have to respond. Just my opinions of course. I love how you have made me think this whole trilogy through again!! Of course Maddie's conflicted; of course she's unsure of her feelings. And, I agree, she doesn't seem to be all that eager to hop into bed with Sam. It's more like she knows Sam is expecting sex--she knows it's what the situation calls for--so she's just taking her medicine, so to speak. Yes, she does know she has feelings for David, but I think since IAWJ she has played the Avoidance game and pushed away those thoughts again. I believe she looks sad because she is thinking about David showing up at dinner with the excuse of needing to tell her something really important, but does not quite get it out because of SHAM Sam!! And I do think that she craves physical contact, judging by her speech in "Blonde on Blonde"; I do believe she is physically AND emotionally craving more than just sex with Sam. I don't believe she would just have sex with him simply because for some reason she needed to take her medicine or that she owed it to him. Not the Maddie Hayes I understand, anyway!! ..... it's just that she's craving it from a different person.And that's the biggest realization I had, watching the episode this time: Maddie already knows who she really wants to be with. If you consider "It's a Wonderful Job" the last canon episodeI don't know....does she really think that it is David she wants during the BOB speech? I feel she has pushed him out her her mind over the course of time from IAWJ and BOB!!! The Maddie Hayes Supremes imitation!! ;D Pushing away what she never fathomed would make her happy....a guy like David!!! [i ].....she's known for quite some time. I mean, she's more or less admitted to herself that she loves David, and she's convinced herself that David loves her (I'm thinking specifically about that scene with Dipesto and Bert, where Maddie says, "You can't treat him like that--you love him... You two love each other, you just don't know it yet.").[/i] I agree, she has known for quite some time.....she just can't admit it yet, so she pushes it away in hopes that it will disappear. Really, all she's waiting on is confirmation from David; she wants him to make the first move.Absolutely!! LOL!!! And THAT is Moonlighting and why we still watch to this day!! Jerome did say it best!! Wasn't the subtext there just, "Tell me you feel the same way--be that guy I can be bad and wonderful with"? Wasn't she trying to make him uncomfortable, trying to force him into admitting that he wanted her just as badly as she wanted him?I did not get that message until she came to his apt. in MTTC and then again in IAC....M. Because by then she has been with Sham Sam and David has been acting weird.....and her true feelings are coming back to haunt her at a huge crossroads in her life. Point: I think it's totally plausible that Maddie's so gung-ho to get back together with Sam simply to see what kind of reaction she'll get from David. I don't know, maybe just a little, but I never felt that the sole purpose for her being with Sam was not so much about David, but about her feeling that she is a mid-30 aged woman who feels the pressures of society or maybe her own family to settle down, get married and have a family. I think Maddie definitely knows what David wants to tell her when he crashes her date with SamI'm not sure she did or not, but it CERTAINLY got her to thinking about it and him!! Maddie makes a pretty telling comment. She says, "Maybe a thing like being faithful isn't that easy to define. Maybe it's not so black-and-white." Because the fact is, Maddie may be "with" Sam, but she feels a greater loyalty to David and his feelings. Faithful to Sam on paper, but faithful to David in her heart and mind.I agree. At this point she has Sam back in her life. She does not know that David met Sham Sam at her door the night before , but the wheels that are turning in her brain and the little matter of her heart are becoming mighty conflicted!!! So, there is my little unimportant......whatever this is I wrote!! ;D Moral of the story: Never trust a guy named Sham Sam.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 30, 2009 22:45:18 GMT -5
LOL, bees!! Sam the Sham! ;D Where does it come from, BTW? Is that a reference to the front man of the Pharaohs??? A Texan band, BTW... Uno, dos, one, two, tres, quatro Matty told Hatty about a thing she saw Had two big horns and a wooly jaw Wooly bullyyyyyy, wooly bully. Wooly bully, wooly bully, wooly bully... YEEEEAAHH!! LOL! ;D
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Post by rose35 on Jan 30, 2009 22:54:22 GMT -5
Moral of the story: Never trust a guy named Sham Sam. Oh Bees i'm ROFLMAO And IBM Wooly bully? Too funny, read my PM to you, so weird! Ahhh great great minds think alike!
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 30, 2009 23:23:13 GMT -5
IBM---- you are SO funny!! Texas Band......omg!! I have always thought Sam was a Sham, but I think I might have gotten it from Virtual Moonlighting? I don't really remember. I do know that I never trusted Sam the Sham!! Why didn't he tell Maddie that David was at her door in the pouring rain late at night.....with flowers......looking like a man on a mission....... And THEN, he acts like they have never met the next night at dinner when David pops in....... And THEN he just leaves while Maddie is out....kinda cowardly...... What kind of guy does that to a woman he has asked to marry him??!! A SHAM!! ;D Did I say I don't like him either??!! ;D
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