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Post by lin212 on Mar 10, 2009 20:30:27 GMT -5
Gray your avatar is fantastic! LOL, so funny man! You never disappoint, gray! Awesome.
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Post by lin212 on Mar 10, 2009 20:34:19 GMT -5
I think David's speech opened Maddie's eyes to the depth of his pain as well as the depth of his love. The look on Maddie's face is telling. I think she realized how much she had underestimated him. Boy Lin, you can see by my earlier post that you and I are at 180 degrees opposite on this. I took another look at that scene before typing this, and sorry, but I haven't changed my mind. I expected more emotion out of Maddie.....something more on the line of Alexander in the airplane....but all I got was a half hearted sigh. Yes, gray, I did notice our difference on this one. It reminds me of Maddie and David seeing the same thing, but "seeing" something totally different. Don't ya love it?!
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Post by sinceifell4u on Mar 10, 2009 20:38:58 GMT -5
Good question, but I don’t think Dave ever linked his one night fireworks display with their relationship, where on the other hand her leaving for Chicago had EVERYTHING to do with it. Dave doesn’t mention Sam at all, or hold that against Maddie, and that little indiscretion was right in Dave’s face…not a fling when it was obvious that Maddie (at least at that point) didn’t want any part of the Addison charm.Great point Gray, I hadn't thought about the Sam angle David could have easily taken. Eureka...the affair makes more sense now...yeah David was hurt but could it be he was getting even more so than seeking comfort? Humm, I'm going to watch that tonight with a fresh vision, repent to the former way I viewed this...thanks Gray!
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Post by sinceifell4u on Mar 10, 2009 20:46:36 GMT -5
Off topic but... OKay ... I was a bit reluctant to post this, but I did a Fan Fic as I promised. Be gentle, I know everyone here is a foremost expert on this and I'm a virgin...so here is the link. www.fanfiction.net/s/4912514/1/Whose_Your_Daddy
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Post by lin212 on Mar 10, 2009 20:48:21 GMT -5
6. The title: Well, as you're probably all aware, the title puns on the following verse from the Bible: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth."–John 1:14 This verse refers to the coming of Jesus Christ. God makes a promise to his people that a savior will be born, and thus the Word (promise/prophecy) is made flesh. The ML writers turn this around...John Wicklow takes a flesh-and-blood woman (Mary...hmmm) and turns her into words in his journal. And she interprets his words as a promise to love and care for her--he becomes her "savior" when he takes the rap for killing her husband. Very clever. But, as usual, I think there's more going on here, having to do with promises that have been made, unmade, and not made. Conventionally, two people meet, fall in love, promise to "have and hold" each other, and then have children, whom they promise to care for. Well, David and Maddie met, fell in love....and then all H-E-double-toothpicks breaks out, and the promises they should have made to each other are instead, made to other people (David never makes a specific promise to Terri, but the potential is there). Now they are at a crossroads--all the tangled skeins have been unwound, and they have a second chance. Whether or not they're both still willing is in question. However, I think the last scene leads us to believe that there is the promise of a future for them (and I hope I'm not getting blasphemous here)...a promise represented by the (writers') Word made flesh, in the person of little Baby Hayes. Which is why I find AWWAV so upsetting...but that's a conversation for another time. Great analysis, Jen. I agree that this title has much to do with promises and commitment (the Word) and hope for the future.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Mar 10, 2009 20:49:00 GMT -5
Glad you like the avatar...it was a rush job, but came out OK.
10: In most ML episodes the case plays like a back story to D/M relationship where it affects them. Is there any thing in this case we can relate to M/D relationship?
Oh yeah, I think it lines up quite well, especially at the end….prior to the smooch on the bridge….where Dave runs down the plusses and minuses of NOT adding to the highway debris problem with Mary Gates, alternatively recommending that she hook up with a dude who is obviously obsessed with her.
On a separate note, how the heck was that going to work out anyway? I mean, the guy let his work fall apart, and then sat outside IN THE RAIN, just to get weekly glimpses of his boss’s wife. Why didn’t he just suggest that the boss hold a skinny dipping party at his house or something? Seems more reasonable to me.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Mar 10, 2009 21:01:57 GMT -5
On a separate note, how the heck was that going to work out anyway? I mean, the guy let his work fall apart, and then sat outside IN THE RAIN, just to get weekly glimpses of his boss’s wife. Why didn’t he just suggest that the boss hold a skinny dipping party at his house or something? Seems more reasonable to me.Yeah, reasonable, LOL
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Mar 10, 2009 21:10:14 GMT -5
Off topic but... OKay ... I was a bit reluctant to post this, but I did a Fan Fic as I promised. Be gentle, I know everyone here is a foremost expert on this and I'm a virgin...so here is the link. www.fanfiction.net/s/4912514/1/Whose_Your_DaddyVERRRRY Nice.
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Post by jpen on Mar 10, 2009 21:20:15 GMT -5
4:David tries to remain distant and aloof from Maddie, and while his slate may not be entirely clean, he finally reveals to Maddie what he is thinking in his little speech in her office. Are his feelings more revealing to Maddie or to himself?
This is a great question. I think David is remaining aloof not only because he is still angry with Maddie, but also because he would prefer not to think about the impact all her recent actions have had on him. (Diane got it right when she chose "Deny" to represent that part of the ep...) He pushes it away, starting in ToMT when Maddie comes back married, right on through MHGM. But then, once Walter is out of the picture, and Maddie batters at his defenses with her demands that they "talk" about their relationship, it all comes crashing in.
I think the line of thought starts for him in the car, and then just builds...but her "clean slate" comment pushes him over the edge, and it comes spilling out. The depth of his pain is perfectly portrayed here in his eyes, the set of his jaw, and the clipped control of his words. This scene really seems to me to be a companion piece to the airplane speech in FKL--just masterful!
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Post by jpen on Mar 10, 2009 21:21:10 GMT -5
Off topic but... OKay ... I was a bit reluctant to post this, but I did a Fan Fic as I promised. Be gentle, I know everyone here is a foremost expert on this and I'm a virgin...so here is the link. www.fanfiction.net/s/4912514/1/Whose_Your_DaddyI love the game show, since--Baby Boy/Girl Hayes had me in stitches! ;D
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Post by diane on Mar 10, 2009 21:27:20 GMT -5
3: As we listen in on their thoughts in the car we hear David and Maddie think, “Things are different now, but they’re still the same.” Does this revelation mean the same thing to Maddie and David?
7). Do you think Maddie fully realizes how badly she hurt David?
I put these two questions together, because I think they interrelate. To be honest, I have never been fond of this episode -- reason being, I think Maddie is painted all wrong. For her to blithely come in, announce her annulment, and expect David to immediately jump to her side is unbelievable.
Maddie has been a mess...she flew the coop, kept him out of the loop -- and I get that. She was confused, and God knows their relationship was confusing. If the two of them had ever really talked to each other!!!! But guess that would have made a very different TV show.
The one thing Maddie wasn't is stupid. She knew what she was doing to David. And in her misguided self absorbed way, she thought she was doing what was best for both of them. That's why the Maddie who is truly puzzled that David is reluctant to jump back in is a stranger to me.
Her disappointment and confusion when they are reading the diaries, and especially her pursuing him down the corridor to get commitments from him are just so out of character, I can hardly stand it. The Maddie I know and love would have realized that she already had a full commitment from David, and would have been much more sensitive and understanding.
They probably still would have needed another whole season to talk and work it out, but what the heck....five was a real bust anyway!
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Post by jpen on Mar 10, 2009 21:30:59 GMT -5
8). Initially, David seems ready to pick up where he and Maddie left off. His attitude smacks of self-satisfaction, he delights in teasing Maddie about his availability. As the episode continues, however, David becomes more distant, cynical, doubtful that the relationship can work. Do you think that his anger in the "clean slate" scene meshes with his playfulness in the opening scene?
I think so...at the beginning of the ep, I think he's still in "avoidance" mode as far as the depth of his hurt and frustration. The flirting is fine with him, until Maddie says "How 'bout Saturday?" There's just a little look he gets before he says, "I'll have to check my calendar" that is suddenly wary--and the more Maddie pushes, the further he retreats.
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Post by diane on Mar 10, 2009 21:33:07 GMT -5
11: This episode ends with the audience feeling very hopeful for M/D and their relationship. They are planning lamaze classes and look very happy. We know Season 5 should have continued this way but unfortunately it doesnt. Do you wish they never ended this episode that way?
The Lamaze ending is sweet and lovely.....my favorite part of the episode. The banter is intimate and indeed hopeful.
However.......here comes the script talk. In the original script, the Lamaze ending does not exist. There is a very different ending, which wraps up an interesting Maddie/David subplot which, if you can believe it, eliminates the "clean slate" speech -- my other favorite part of the ep!
I am going to try and transcribe it...it's pretty long, so let's see how long it takes me.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Mar 10, 2009 21:34:37 GMT -5
9: Do you feel Maddie jumps too quickly into thinking David is ready to jump right back into their relationship now that she annulled her marriage to Walter? Yes! Absolutely - I'm very put off by her "Mmkay, let go and hang out at some laundromats tonight!" attitude. Perhaps she felt that it was the only way to win David back, by being so available and willing. When they got together she was fighting it every step of the way, and David was hurt by her non-committal attitude. Maybe she thought, 'Hey, I want to let him know that if he wants me, he's got me." But her attitude whether completely oblivious to David's feelings, which I don't think she totally was, or if it was indeed a strategy to get back on his good side, her timing was terrible. She should have apologized wholeheartedly and talked with him before ever attempting to revisit the idea of a committed relationship, which they'd never truly had anyway! David is completely entitled to blast anger and feel hurt because of her actions. You pegged it Manitoba! As we mentioned in a bunch of previous discussions, Dave is a traditional sort, especially in areas that surround his religious beliefs. To him, marriage is a sacrament. However here Maddie treats it as a lark, a convenience, a Skittle as opposed to David's view of it being an all day sucker. I think that David's banter about Maddie's availability early in the show had more to do with his relative shock at her new singlehood, and that as time went on, he had more of an opportunity to soak it all in...and he wasn't 100% happy with what he was seeing.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Mar 10, 2009 21:37:45 GMT -5
As a carpal tunnel avoidance measure, we wobblies just gotta chip in and buy Diane a scanner with OCR capability.
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