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Post by jpen on Nov 18, 2008 22:51:49 GMT -5
Mmmm...cocoa and marshmallows--hey, maybe there IS one part of this ep that I actually like! a) I love the way Maddie picks up that toy in the dream sequence... It suggests that the thought of motherhood doesn't frighten her... Maybe she thinks she can be a good parent! I'm certain she'd have been GREAT at this. I agree, italianblue (also when she says to Walter, "I'm excited...and nervous"). And it's a damn shame that we never got to find out.
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Post by manitobadesigner on Nov 18, 2008 22:57:44 GMT -5
5. What are some qualities of Maddie’s character that are revealed in her dreams and in her conversations with Walter? What are some of her other revelations?
I always thought it odd that she opened up to Walter so easily, I know he's a likeable guy and all, but she almost seemed to me like a different woman altogether - how she was expressing herself to him. So to me, this whole other set of qualities emerged from her during her pajama party with Walter. Her regret, her deepest feelings and fears all coming to the surface with this stranger. The way she spoke was so completely different from the way she expresses herself with David. I suppose the fear that she feels with David is not present with Walter, so perhaps more of her true self was able to come to the forefront.
The tricycle through the door serves the same purpose as the slaps in IACM--it breaks some of the tension, and makes a statement about how much she has gotten to him, and paves the way for their passionate embrace...and then he disappears, in the same way Maddie is afraid their passion will disappear if they settle down together. jpen
I so love this analysis - I never even thought of that angle about the concept behind David disappearing was. When I watched that scene for the first time, all I was thinking was "she's finally realized that's the David she wants, yay!". But it turned out to be so much more complicated than choosing one or the other.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 18, 2008 23:04:04 GMT -5
Question 5 Part 2 (David) How many emotions did David experience from the time Maddie walks in the office to the time he leaves a the end?1 - Happiness (He sees her) ; 2 - Relief (Maddie's back, at last!!) ; 2 - Same old Dave (Why don't we slip into something a little more comfortable... ) ; 3 - Fatherhood: when David touches Maddie's womb does he look proud of what? ; 4 - Lovely (why don't we go out... etc.) ; 5 - Disappointed (Do I still have to wait?) ; 6 - Angry/Aggressive (After 4 1/2 months he has the chance to let it all out...He overreacts); 7 - Sweet ( I missed you... ); 8 - SHOCKED (Maddie drops the bomb... ); 9 - His heart breaks into pieces... Mine too... (Maddie tells him the baby is not his... He leaves Maddie's office laughing, but we all know how deeply hurt he is... )
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 18, 2008 23:06:22 GMT -5
Pat Boone was a perfect choice, I think, because not only did he have a reputation for being clean-cut and moral, but he also was a very good sport about other folks in the business teasing him about it. He's definitely "in on the joke". Even though a part of me wishes Bruce Willis had just played the role himself, I do think the casting of Pat Boone was quite inspired. Yes, ditzy, I agree. Add to that list the stationwagon, the house, bottles of pills(Geritol?) on the bar, his clothes, the song he sings going out the door and the Lassie dog in the office. And yeah, the Laura and Rob Petrie matching beds........ ;D
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Post by manitobadesigner on Nov 18, 2008 23:10:25 GMT -5
I have a question for you all – do you guys think that the harshness of the way Maddie gave him the news about Walter and the baby was primarily due to the way Cybill delivered her lines (not to say that the scripted words weren't harsh - they were) - in other words, do you think that the scene could have had a different emotional tone (less cold) if Maddie's words were said with different tones/actions from Cybill?
(Does this question make any sense!?)
I just was always frustrated by how emotionally vacant and cruel she came off in that scene. (could it be that Cybill decided that was the best way to play it - like ripping off a bandaid?)
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 18, 2008 23:14:29 GMT -5
You wobblies have done a great job so far!! Ditzy and jpen nailed it with the symbolism in the door crashing dream sequence!! itliablue-----never thought about that little thing with the stuffed animal and Maddie thinking about being a mother!! Good stuff!! Very nice essedness...........
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 18, 2008 23:16:57 GMT -5
I always thought it odd that she opened up to Walter so easily, I know he's a likeable guy and all, but she almost seemed to me like a different woman altogether - how she was expressing herself to him. So to me, this whole other set of qualities emerged from her during her pajama party with Walter. Her regret, her deepest feelings and fears all coming to the surface with this stranger. The way she spoke was so completely different from the way she expresses herself with David. I suppose the fear that she feels with David is not present with Walter, so perhaps more of her true self was able to come to the forefront.Very nice Manitoba....very well put!
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Post by jpen on Nov 18, 2008 23:20:38 GMT -5
Re: Maddie's harshness when she tells David about the baby--
Good question, manitoba. I was thinking the same thing--there could be so many shades to those words: "It isn't yours." I don't know if she says it that way to push David further away--maybe it'll be easier if he's angry at her, or if he thinks she doesn't care...
Of course, then she spends the next minute badgering him: "Can't you find anything nice to say?" This, to me, was possibly the worst part of the writing of this episode--it makes her look like such a self-centered b*tch! I would think that the last thing she would want would be to prolong their conversation.
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Post by manitobadesigner on Nov 18, 2008 23:21:00 GMT -5
I always thought it odd that she opened up to Walter so easily, I know he's a likeable guy and all, but she almost seemed to me like a different woman altogether - how she was expressing herself to him. So to me, this whole other set of qualities emerged from her during her pajama party with Walter. Her regret, her deepest feelings and fears all coming to the surface with this stranger. The way she spoke was so completely different from the way she expresses herself with David. I suppose the fear that she feels with David is not present with Walter, so perhaps more of her true self was able to come to the forefront.Very nice Manitoba....very well put! Thank you, ;D If there was any episode I was so frustrated with, this is the one - and the way Maddie talked with Walter was the biggest thing that bugged me about it.
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 18, 2008 23:25:22 GMT -5
What was the one big revelation for Maddie when Walter woke her up from her screaming and crying nightmare?? She has the same revelation at her house when packing to leave Chicago. Manitoba, I have thought about how that scene with Maddie telling David she is married and that the baby was not his was played that way because by this time MAddie had at least made up her mind that she had to tell him everything....especially about the baby. I think she really dreaded it. Remember she says to Walter , “ How do I explain to him that he was in the right place at the wrong time” It was very painful to watch, especially the first time it aired because at the time I did not know she ended up married to Walter. It was a double dose of......crap!!
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Post by jpen on Nov 18, 2008 23:26:16 GMT -5
Hey, bees, thanks so much for the thought-provoking questions. I still can't embrace this ep or this storyline--the ending just kills it for me, though perhaps the fact that I get so angry means they've done something right (and Cybill and Bruce did an outstanding job with what they were given). In any case, I'm darn impressed with my fellow fans' analytical skills! I feel like we've made lemonade out of lemons, tonight!
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 18, 2008 23:29:20 GMT -5
Today I was thinking over the whole pregnancy thing... I considered the "continuity" from "Sam and Dave" to "Tracks Of My Tears"... and I noticed something... I don't wish to sound like... a dweeb... But I'd like to share my thoughts with you. So here we go: When Maddie steps into the office, she says she's "a little under 5 months" (of pregnancy). We know she's been away for 4 1/2 months... We also know that she's been with David for 4 weeks... Are you following me so far? Conclusion: IT'S DAVID'S CHILD!!! ;D ;D Explanation: if you suppose Maddie got pregnant, let's say, during the second/third week spent with David... It all adds up! 2 weeks (the time between the conception and Maddie's departure) + 4 1/2 months (the amount of time Maddie spends at her parent's house) = 5 MONTHS!!! What do you think about it?
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 18, 2008 23:32:17 GMT -5
Hey, bees, thanks so much for the thought-provoking questions. I still can't embrace this ep or this storyline--the ending just kills it for me, though perhaps the fact that I get so angry means they've done something right (and Cybill and Bruce did an outstanding job with what they were given). In any case, I'm darn impressed with my fellow fans' analytical skills! I feel like we've made lemonade out of lemons, tonight! Yes, I think we should be very proud of our essedness!!! I know how you feel about this one, though. Leaves you with a whole lot of "what ifs".....
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Post by manitobadesigner on Nov 18, 2008 23:36:21 GMT -5
Good question, manitoba. I was thinking the same thing--there could be so many shades to those words: "It isn't yours." I don't know if she says it that way to push David further away--maybe it'll be easier if he's angry at her, or if he thinks she doesn't care... jpen
Ah, exactly! Somehow I think she almost wished that David would get mad enough to actually leave - if he did, it would have saved her all the pain of dealing with him every day after that. That way she could turn her back to him yet again and ignore the whole mess.
I think she really dreaded it. Remember she says to Walter , “ How do I explain to him that he was in the right place at the wrong time” beesnbears
Yeah, I totally couldn't parse how she went from feeling so much during her confession to Walter to appearing to feel so little with David. It was so upsetting to watch!
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 18, 2008 23:38:36 GMT -5
Italiablue---
The date of conception has been discussed many times!! We all know it is David's baby. Not sure if the writers just wanted to torcher us some more or if they really intended for the baby to be Sam's until they got all of the hate mail after the episode aired!!!
Sad thing is Maddie wanted it to be David's and they never were told that it was.........but they told us!!!
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