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Post by diane on Oct 13, 2009 18:30:15 GMT -5
Welcome to the long awaited discussion of THE BIG FOUR....most especially tonight, its first episode "Blonde on Blonde".
Before we start with questions, I am delicately going to try and talk about the first title of this episode and its origins. This may not be easy on a G rated website.....hope no one is offended. But honestly, we are going to border on risque as we work our way through these episodes.
The title originally was "The Night of the Zipless Dave", a title which came from "Fear of Flying" by Erica Jong. This novel was published in 1973, and was noted for its liberal views about women's sexuality, and became important in the advance of feminism.
In the novel, Jong outlines what she calls "the zipless f**k", which is explained as follows:
"A sexual encounter between strangers that has the swift compression of a dream and is seemingly free of all remorse and guilt. It is absolutely pure, there is no power game, and it is free of ulterior motives. " It has also been described as a perfect one night stand, and the highest plateau of casual sex.
Susequently, after the censors objected, the episode was retitled "Blonde on Blonde", a title derived from a Dylan album...and a lot easier to discuss......phew!!!
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Oct 13, 2009 18:35:43 GMT -5
Sounds like what kids today called "Friends With Benefits".
However, unlike the Zipless encounter, they already know each other.
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 13, 2009 18:42:30 GMT -5
I love information like this!! Thanks Diane!
This is going to be so much fun tonight!!
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Post by diane on Oct 13, 2009 18:52:24 GMT -5
Ok...questions:
1. Anybody want to comment on one or both of the titles?
2. In almost every episode, David propositions Maddie one way or another. Why, when she clearly told him she was looking for "fulfillment", did he not offer ...even as his normal wisecracking self?
3. Bruce's acting is always acknowledged in this episode, and rightly so. But what is your feeling about Cybill's acting here? Who had the harder job with this episode and why?
4. David tells Maddie she should talk to him because they are "friends". Are they really friends? Got any better words to describe their relationship at this point?
5. Maddie does not end up connecting with a stranger. Is that because of the circumstances, or because of who she is?
6. I could do about 50 questions on this topic....but let's just keep it open ended. Discuss the scene at Maddie's door........
Please add some questions....I have a few more things, but would like some help!!!
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Post by diane on Oct 13, 2009 19:02:48 GMT -5
Reviewing the script:
The story runs fairly close to the original......the dialogue is a little looser than usual.....some decent ad-libs, but nothing that really changes the meanings.
The scenes of David and Bert in the car were quite a bit longer, including some more kind of slap sticks turns and bashing into stuff. There is also some dialogue omitted, specifically quite a bit of Bert discussing the kind of girl Agnes is, with David still distractedly concerned with Maddie.
The major difference in the script that I picked up is in the office when David is asking Maddie to talk to him, and it is mostly in the stage directions. Once Maddie decides to tell him, the stage direc tions have her almost becoming the aggressor......grabbing his lapels, barging into his space...until he actually physically pushes her away and retreats. ( I can post some of the actual directions, if anybody wants them).
My question is......do you think the way it was shot was better or worse, and why do you think they changed it?
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Post by diane on Oct 13, 2009 19:04:42 GMT -5
SILLY QUESTION ALERT:
What kinds of things would have made their way into the episodes, had product placement been an advertising method in 1987?
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Oct 13, 2009 19:06:18 GMT -5
1. Anybody want to comment on one or both of the titles?
The original title to me seems more apropos, more related to the plot. As you so eloquently described it, this appeared to be Maddie's original quest. Blonde on Blonde, while I suppose relating to Maddie and the similarly gorgeous Donna Dixon, somehow comes in a distant second.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Oct 13, 2009 19:14:30 GMT -5
2. In almost every episode, David propositions Maddie one way or another. Why, when she clearly told him she was looking for "fulfillment", did he not offer ...even as his normal wisecracking self?
Oh, this was different. This was not the balance of power that had been the forte of the show for almost three years. In this instance, Dave was flabbergasted, floored, flummoxed by Maddie's revelations. She wasn't coming on to our hero...she was contemplating action with an anonymous member of my gender....and I was nowhere around!
Dave's reaction was one of astonishment, and I must say so was mine when watching this episode. He was truly concerned for her welfare and this was no time to quip.
I think Dave also wanted, deep down, if he ever DID get Maddie horizontal, that it would be on equal terms, not a quick reaction...especially one on her part....that she may regret later.
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 13, 2009 19:20:41 GMT -5
2. In almost every episode, David propositions Maddie one way or another. Why, when she clearly told him she was looking for "fulfillment", did he not offer ...even as his normal wisecracking self?
I look at this in two ways:
1. The fact that she says she wants fulfillment with a stranger completely throws him. She is not acting like the Maddie he has come to know and this scares him, disappoints him some and maybe even makes him angry.
2. He doesn't offer his services because he is sensitive enough to know that it would probably be the worse time to make an offer.
But foremost, he wants her to choose him.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Oct 13, 2009 19:22:31 GMT -5
3. Bruce's acting is always acknowledged in this episode, and rightly so. But what is your feeling about Cybill's acting here? Who had the harder job with this episode and why?
If you have to pick one of the two, I still have to go with Bruce. Cybill had that one scene in the office where she had to change pace, but really after that she reverted back to form. She went shopping...OK, she has to eat...she went to Metropolis which was different, but her actions there weren't much dissimilar than the dates with the plastic surgeon in the pilot or with Preston Holt in "Read the Mind".
Bruce has to act concerned, shocked, confused, worried, scared, aggrivated, inspired and heartbroken all in 46 minutes and a few odd seconds.
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 13, 2009 19:31:04 GMT -5
3. Bruce's acting is always acknowledged in this episode, and rightly so. But what is your feeling about Cybill's acting here? Who had the harder job with this episode and why?
They are both great, as always. Cybill most always had to play the straight man, though here she plays the sad woman and Bruce is somewhat the straight man with some comedy thrown in.
I think the music really added to their performance in two cases:
Maddie comes out of the elevator the first time and there is no music, just a shot of her feet and walking down the hall. When she comes back the second time, the same shot with the incidental Maddie theme...love it!!
The other case is when David is on the streets and "Run Around Sue" is playing. Yet, when he is on the stairway in the hotel and on the ledge...no music.
And what is weird, the no music scenes are really good, imo!!
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Oct 13, 2009 19:33:05 GMT -5
6. I could do about 50 questions on this topic....but let's just keep it open ended. Discuss the scene at Maddie's door........
It ripped my guts out. OK, so as a dude, I obviously relate to Dave. Having a crush on Cybill since high school also helped me "identify" with the character. Add to that me being given the "friend" treatment by a girl I was madly in love with at one point (as hard as that may for you all to believe), put me right there in his soggy loafers.
Now I have to give some props to the Detective Addison here. As he would stand outside in the rain, he would deduce a couple of things. Foremost, I think he would conclude that the man in the doorway was surely not somebody Maddie picked up at a bar. Even IF she would have gone through with it...would she have been that comfortable with this total stranger to drift off to dreamland and give him the run of the place? Huge doubts in my mind. I think Det. Addison would know there was more behind the hansome mug than meets the eye.
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Post by lin212 on Oct 13, 2009 19:34:59 GMT -5
2. In almost every episode, David propositions Maddie one way or another. Why, when she clearly told him she was looking for "fulfillment", did he not offer ...even as his normal wisecracking self?
Totally agree with gray and bees. Maddie took him by surprise. When he asked her what was bothering her, he never expected the response that she gave. He was processing so many different emotions at the same time. I think that her recklessness scared him, so he was worried about her safety. At the same time, he was shocked by her admission regarding her desires. He was stunned. Finally, there was a certain amount of jealousy bubbling underneath the surface. Even poor Dave couldn't come up with a smart, wisecracking retort to this one.
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 13, 2009 19:36:44 GMT -5
What kinds of things would have made their way into the episodes, had product placement been an advertising method in 1987? Alcoholic beverages.....Ford....Birthcontrol ...
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Oct 13, 2009 19:39:36 GMT -5
5. Maddie does not end up connecting with a stranger. Is that because of the circumstances, or because of who she is?
The hopeful guy in me thinks that Maddie would have wound up at home with a cup of cocoa....no pool boy in tow. Her romantic notions of a quickie romance were dashed with the run ins with the two guys at the bar, bringing Miss Hayes quickly back to the realization that those places weren't filled with Prince Charmings...they were populated with toads like me.
She would have found error messages with every cad that came by, rebooting to the cool, calculating Maddie we know and love.
At least that is what I would hope for.
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